Surely this list of behaviours that challenge social convention are not THE list used by medical professionals to diagnos gender dysphoria?

And yes, if the DfE advice is explicitly to say a general identity cannot be based on stereotypes that's a direct contradiction of what appears to be a diagnosis.

Sadly one can now say "experimenting on children" as an established fact fof starters.

I think the key part of the ruling was to show the pathway from PB to CSH was almost inevitable and that no records were kept, no research done.
Previously when I used to express concern it was hard to back it up
I’m in a mums group on FB and when Keira first launched her case I brought it up and two of the mums flat out denied any of it was happening and I was called a Terf.
People are still denying it on SM but are getting more and more desperate judging by the swearing and threats

I decided when the Bell judgment was given last week that one thing I could do to thank Keira and Co was to be braver about speaking out about my views. If enough people do it will shine light. It does seem more possible to speak out. Thank you Keira.

Yes the Bell ruling means we have something to point at. Transitioning a five year old socially (and it does happen) is a pathway to PBS and CSH are almost inevitable. So, pathway to potential sterility and a host of other ailments. But we are the bigots.
Believers in gender identity used to call us “wrong side of history” but I have a feeling they will be. I’m speaking openly about this now.

Grayson Perry is an interesting version of hiding - or not even hiding but proclaiming- in plain sight. He makes ut clear his dressing up as Claire is a sexual fetish and everyone smiles and nods and thinks it's lovely. He must be quite disappointed! He is intelligent and charismatic and talented - so people decline to hear what he himself says about it. Turning a deaf ear rather than a blind eye.

Yes, Old crone, so would I. I do feel the Bell v Tavi judgment is so important. It is like having a foothold, something firm, where before there was only quicksand. I do think we must fight to hold on and that the scales are beginning to fall from people's eyes and the Emperor's new clothes are beginning to be seen for what they are.

We and I mean Society, or the Elite have been medicalising nonmedical issues for some time.

ArabellaScott

Yes, Wee, but I feel that a lot of the narrative of gender ideology is actually doing a lot of work to create a more rigidly gendered society.

For an insight into transvestism at least, look at the quotes of Grayson Perry.

Perry will tell anyone who'll listen, how his motivations are almost entirely sexual, and is surprisingly candid about all of it.

“Dressing up is partly about the right sort of attention. Little boys don’t get the kind of attention for just being which girls get.

No one’s as sexist as a transvestite. We like gender roles. I always describe myself as gender rigid,”

“I signed up for a gender and I want them to be very clearly delineated so I know I’m dressing up in the wrong clothes.”

Perry reveals ‘One of the reasons I dress up as a woman is my low self-esteem, to go with the image of women being seen as second class.

Anyone with the smallest attempt at analysis can see that the ideology relies on sexism, but you don't often hear it admitted amidst all the hormone wash and assigned at birth nonsense.

I'd love to see an explanation for that one.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200502223745/www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200502223745/www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms/

Especially when you get tw like Alex Drummond who has a beard. How can it be so unquestionable that as trans does not equal gender dysphoria, gender dysphoria might not equal trans?

Something else that really disturbs me is that-
TWAW end of
But children who meet six of the criteria have “gender dysphoria” and we may then call them trans. They must go through social transition, puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and potentially become an infertile lifelong medical patient

But TW give up nothing.

I found it interesting reading Stumbledin - and found myself wondering quite when it was written in its current form. The text I thought quite measured and balanced for the most part. Not quite sure it fits very well therefore with the "checklist' you started the thread about? Would it be too cynical to think its had a recent makeover? No mention of Mermaids etc.

I have just contacted the NHS using the contact form on their website to ask about their updating their gender dysphoria in children info to reflect thd judgment in Bell v the Tavi.

Can they still describe puberty blockers as a "pause button "? Ill post any reply.

www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/think-your-child-might-be-trans-or-non-binary/

The DSM 5 (like all DSMs before...) is a deeply problematic document anyway. If people truly realised generally the degree to which its categories are just decided on by a small "task force", nearly all of whom are funded by the pharmaceutical industry, there'd be mayhem. It's accepted that the diagnoses are not generally scientifically backed (being neither reliable nor valid).
James Davies's book Cracked does a pretty good job of explaining it.

It'd highlight even more clearly what a load of bollocks it is that only exists because of clumsy gender stereotypes in the first place.

I grew up in the 70's though, and although women had much more rigid roles children certainly did not. I was all the things on that list, a classic tomboy.

Yes, I was the same in the 50s and 60s. Classic tomboy, but adults smiled when they said that.

I identified with the male heroes of books and films because their lives looked more exciting. In real life I saw men doing interesting outdoor work whereas women did boring indoor drudgery.

Then in the 70s feminism broadened our horizons. And now, as you say, Baaah, we’ve gone backwards.

I can't believe how gender stereotyped girls and boys are now expected to be. We have definitely gone backwards, which is odd considering so much has been done to try to create an equal society for men and women

I'm an 80s kid, I went to 2 schools who didn't allow trousers for girls, the sports were gendered too much to my disgust of course

The biggest difference i think really is you did as you were told. If you had ti wear your brothers old coat you did. You didn't expect your parents to go out buying extra stuff when you had siblings or someone had been kind enough to hand it down. If you had to shove a ghastly dress on for grannies birthday , you did it. You silently seethed and pulled it off when you got home and out it away for another Yr.

You'd have been ignored and sent to your room with no dinner if you'd kicked off wailing about how the dress didn't reflect your identity.

There just wasn't the tine or money to indulge it

I can't believe how gender stereotyped girls and boys are now expected to be. We have definitely gone backwards, which is odd considering so much has been done to try to create an equal society for men and women.

Its a scary list. My son goes to a SEN school for autism and its unusual as it has lots of girls too.

The children often have less desire to confirm to social norms. That sort of social pleasing isnt a strong motivator for them.

This means the boys and girls play with what they like and pick friends who like similar things. They have a way bigger range of interests anyway as there is less 'cool' pressure too. Hair cuts fall into two groups. Short hair for those with sensory issues around hair flapping in their face, long hair for those with sensory issues about hair cutting. Clothes tend towards male norms as shoes and joggers are comfier. Its quite common for a child to have a favourite colour or character and dress entierly like that. Thats not to say there arent girls in pink, liking unicorns and boys in blue liking trains but there is more cross over.
This list is so neurotypical that its dangerous to children with autism. My son is very suggestable so if people keep saying long hair and soft toys means girl he could believe it.

I’ve no doubt at all that the kids they are going to battle for are distressed, I believe that is absolutely true. But based on this list, they’re being diagnosed with an inability to adhere to sex role stereotypes, and the concept that you ought to drug children out of that is astonishing.

I find it terrifying how much of the media has been incredibly keen to push increased stereotyping and then this.