Impact of 2-child benefit cap on abortion decisions

I think its absolutely the right decision. There are far too many people having children ikea litters of puppies just to claim benefits. I've always worked hard but I could only afford childcare for one child so I only had one child.

The FWR board doesn't have a lock on it, anyone from any part of the site is allowed to post which is a good thing (although there will always be exceptions, personally if i despised and hated a board id keep off it)

As posters keep reminding us only 7 percent of women say they are feminist so why anyone would think that wouldn't be the same on mumsnet (or close) is absolutely beyond me

Hardly any posters on this thread have said they are feminist

@PearPickingPorky
No reason other than contraception being mostly hormonal, which many women can't tolerate, or has quite significant side effects

Thank you for making this point on behalf of all the real women out there. Not that those on here insisting how easily women can avoid unplanned pregnancies will care, but many women can't use oral contraceptives or other convenient contraceptive methods because of medical reasons. I think we should just all stop having sex until the menopause, maybe that will make them happy

Bollocks, jj.

I can remember and recognise usernames, even if you can't, and I know the difference in between the subculture of AIBU, Chat, and FWR.

Don't try and pin it on feminists that some people have no empathy for women in coercive relationships.

This is what the government wanted though, people (women) to think about how they would support their/ any new children.

I think I agree if you are on benefits, the benefits is a set amount and doesn't increase with extra children like people's wages don't automatically increase if they have a child. But if I read this correct from other posts, I do think if the children are already born and you go onto benefits through unemployment, illness etc. all children should covered and not limited.

Women (and families) still have a choice of whether to abort or not, and unfortunately financial circumstances and stability has always been a factor for some women keeping their babies, even before abortion was legalised in the U.K.

In the wake of Brexit

That should say

I would put it down to people feeling more comfortable expressing how they really feel in the desire of Brexit.

Racism, misogyny etc these views never went away people just felt they were better off not expressing them for a while.

Come off it. You clearly think women are stupid.

You're going to blame feminists for women deciding that the state should coerce abortion and have women disclosing rape to bureaucrats.

There's literally nothing that isn't the fault of feminists in your eyes is there.

@NiceGerbil

So many people red hot keen. What has changed? In just a few years.

A few years of people enthusiastically posting links to the Daily Mail, Spectator, Spiked and the Murdoch press with heaps of gushing praise perhaps? They really 'get it,' isn't that the consensus? Brendan O Neill, James Kirkup and Douglas Murray are the new heroes of women's rights. Why are you surprised when people listen to what else they say.

I bet if the editors of those papers read this thread they'd pat themselves on the back for a job well done. Worth every penny of Julie Bindel's salary for her Spectator column. This is what feminism is now.

I still want to know what action the man should take to prevent pregnancy on realising he has had unprotected sex.

There must be some way he can act to put an end to any possible pregnancy.

The PP did say it was down to people, after all, to act to prevent pregnancy after the event.

The only thing I can think of that's in his hands is giving her a really solid beating tbh. Would be need to wait until any pregnancy was further along though?

I can't think of another way.

It's not as simple as "just take the morning-after pill" after unprotected sex!

The morning-after pill is not bloody magic.

50% of pregnancies are unplanned, but there is no reason in U.K. for a woman to decline to get the morning after pill, decline to get any other form of interception with any potential pregnancy, such as having a coil fitted, and decline to have more than one form of contraception from there onwards.

No reason other than contraception being mostly hormonal, which many women can't tolerate, or has quite significant side effects. And it being difficult to use as it needs to be taken at the same time every day, which is not always possible for some women. Or alternatively, the coil being a horribly invasive and painful insertion, which can cause very heavy bleeding every month.

If only here was a contraceptive option for men which didn't involve any pain or negative side effects to their health, then men wouldn't keep unintentionally causing pregnancies.

'I do, though, wish that people would take instant action where there has been any risk of pregnancy'

People? What action should men take?

'There shouldn't be a need for the central or local government to lift a finger for these exceptional, beloved stars. 'A village will raise a child'' A child who is any less precious has less than the life deserved.'

Christ.

So all the children of people who have lost their jobs due to Corona etc have children who no longer, what. Have any chance of a good life?.
Well I suppose that's possibly true if their mothers are vilified and no one will help them in any way. Which seems to be the point of that village comment.

@20mum Uk birth rate is at the lowest it has been in 80 years. Even mums of non uk origin, who were responsible for a disproportionate number of births (and for many of them, its a cultural thing so having CB or not isn't a factor), have seen a declining birth rate.

People on Mumsnet are always saying XX has these children she can't afford and so many of them. But I don't see it, if anything, people are having far fewer children. Yes a lot of people can't even afford 1 child. And many of them would never be able to afford more than 1 child without state support even if they waited until they were 40.
But this thread title is saying that poor people can have children, just not more than 2.

50% of pregnancies are unplanned, but there is no reason in U.K. for a woman to decline to get the morning after pill, decline to get any other form of interception with any potential pregnancy, such as having a coil fitted, and decline to have more than one form of contraception from there onwards.

The imagined picture appears to be one where absolutely accidentally, a woman in the middle of pregnancy suddenly notices she is pregnant with an unwanted, unsupportable child, and is 'forced to choose' to have her DC ripped from her body. Very dramatic but not a true picture. Only a handful of women don't know they are pregnant till a late stage.

I do, though, wish that people would take instant action where there has been any risk of pregnancy, not leave it till there is certainty, as if they wilfully prefer to give themselves any potential emotional cost by allowing their brains to kick in with the animal protective instinct. In that respect, it was far better before pregnancy tests were not only readily available, but also were able to detect pregnancy almost as soon as the man leaves the bedroom!

If it's unplanned, stop it fast and stop any chance of it happening again. Not only does the planet not need extra population, humans do need those, rare, children who do arrive to be longed for, deliberate, carefully planned, prepared for, provided for, cherished by their immediate circle and their wider community. There shouldn't be a need for the central or local government to lift a finger for these exceptional, beloved stars. 'A village will raise a child'' A child who is any less precious has less than the life deserved.

'But women do ultimately have total control over whose sperm enters them, whether contraception is used and whether pregnancy is aborted.'

They can ditch the rape exemption clause then and save even more money. Yay!

Also the state coercing women into abortions they don't want yay!

I love this thread.

I'm particularly confused about all these tots who are squandering money on drink or drugs but hey what do I know.

Oh you meant the reckless women. In a way it would be better to either take the children away or put the women and children into some kind of controlled environment to raise them. Because if they are choosing not to feed their children then that's very serious neglect.

There could be big house type things for the children who have been removed to live together under the care of the state, and other big house things for the mothers and children to be put in.

Soup and bread are very nutritious, consideration should be given to a diet along those lines.

Then we need to put resources into educating and training these people regarding their life choices, with the aim of preventing imprudent and ill-advised reproduction.

Not supporting it after the fact.

By punishing the children after they are born by making them live in poverty?

But women do ultimately have total control over whose sperm enters them, whether contraception is used and whether pregnancy is aborted.

The ignorance of this to the reality of so many women's lives. And the total abnegation of the responsibility of the men who actually do the ejaculating into a woman which causes the unwanted pregnancy in the first place.

I agree. As a woman the choice has always been up to me. 100 percent.

What's the alternative? "Oh dear, you don't have a condom? I guess I'll just risk having an unplanned offspring then; let's go to it." Really???

Approximately 50% of pregnancies are unplanned.

Awful lot of feckless women we have who need to punished by making sure they and their children are living in poverty.

Then we need to put resources into educating and training these people regarding their life choices, with the aim of preventing imprudent and ill-advised reproduction.

Not supporting it after the fact.

Regarding obesity, it’s quite possible for a person to be both obese and malnourished.

But women do ultimately have total control over whose sperm enters them, whether contraception is used and whether pregnancy is aborted.

If 57, sexually active since 17, and no man has ever told me what to do in regards to any of the above. My body, my choices, MY responsibility.