Impact of 2-child benefit cap on abortion decisions

Also big housing developments greenlit by planning authorities without thought to how the existing, small infrastructure will cope. I know of a number of villages where this has caused chaos.

If you build 150 family homes in an area that has one school that is only set up for a small intake per year then you have a problem.

one extra person on the planet is a serious cost for everyone else.Any sensible policy in every country of the world must aim at reversing population increase, not encouraging, rewarding or enabling it, above all for those who have no alternative life but breeding, and for those who cannot adequately support and tend a child from their own resources

That means built on, just for clarity!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41901294

Agree with JJ

Infrastructure is the key. It's been run down.

6% of the UK is developed.

Personally I think encouraging family planning is a feminist issue. This thread has made me feel like the baby eating bishop of Bath and Wells!

Income protection Insurance is expensive. Very much.

The there's also the point that it only applies to people in work and who are then rendered unable to work through illness or injury, and who remain employed.

I'm not sure what this insurance argument is about. At all really. This is women's pregnancies and bodies. There is no payout related to that.

If she is in a relationship and the man has IP then it will pay if he is unable to work etc, according to the policy conditions. If he loses his job insurance ends unless he had bought redundancy cover which is even more pricey. You can't have an IP policy if you're not working full stop.

I fail to see how insurance helps much at all really.

According to the article a lot of women aborting have a partner in work. But can't afford it. So insurance has zero relevance.

There are far too many of us and every area suffers (and will get worse) because of it. Not enough housing which means ridiculously high house prices and rents, not enough jobs and this is going to get much worse because of covid, schools don't have enough money and can't cope, the NHS can't cope. The railways are packed to a dangerous level in rush hour as are the tubes. The roads are just a joke. A 10 minute journey so rarely takes 10 minutes unless you live in the middle of nowhere. More like half an hour at least.

None of these problems are caused by over population, and none will be solved by punishing children with hunger and homelessness for the perceived sins of their parents.

I don't agree that 95% of woman have quite a few children are working. Not in my area they aren't. If they don't work how do you know their children will?

Also, as I said before, the planet is overpopulated. Even if you don't think it is the UK certainly is. There are far too many of us and every area suffers (and will get worse) because of it. Not enough housing which means ridiculously high house prices and rents, not enough jobs and this is going to get much worse because of covid, schools don't have enough money and can't cope, the NHS can't cope. The railways are packed to a dangerous level in rush hour as are the tubes. The roads are just a joke. A 10 minute journey so rarely takes 10 minutes unless you live in the middle of nowhere. More like half an hour at least.

We cannot just keep adding and adding to the population. Anyone with a brain would realise that.

No it's not fair that children suffer but they are going to suffer anyway in the future especially if we don't do something about the population numbers.

Child Benefit is available for all kids.

In principle I am appalled by the idea that women's fertility choices by a cap on welfare provision for those children. Or that children should suffer as a result.

But.

I have had 2 abortions because I was not in a position to support a child properly. And I don't regret either. I didn't have children at the time, and am very glad - even more glad now I know what being a mother entails - that I did wait until I could be a parent who could give my child what they needed.

And if I had had kids already? Well, I would have been grateful for those children and want to support them to thrive. Not make life harder.

Removing the stigma from abortion could help a lot of people. It often seems as if you are saying something outrageous to say 'I had an abortion and I don't regret it'. 'I felt relieved'. 'It was sad but I made the best decision at the time and I think I was right'.

Of course, many women do feel sad and suffer long term upset over a termination. But I think the stats are that one woman in 3 in this country will have a termination. Many of us just get on with it, and on with our lives. No big drama.

Those situations are why insurance exists. It is vastly irresponsible to have children without insurance.

Why do people think insurance will solve all your problems?

It doesn't pay out for everything. It doesn't pay out very much (people who are wealthy enough to have it usually only have enough to cover their mortgage).

I said my view was any family should ideally not have more than 2 children rich or poor and got accused of advocating forced abortion 🙄. Err no. I just think there are too many people on the planet as it is so financially incentivising people to have more seems odd.

I know accidents happen but most are just careless

So what? Whilst I agree with all the points about abusive parents and the horrifying rape clause, what if someone just makes a mistake? What if they forget to take their pill, or go out and get pissed and have unprotected sex, or fall in love and have kids with someone then it all goes to shit? What if someone even just says fuck it, I like being a mum and I'm going to have loads of kids on benefits? Are you saying their children should be punished with hunger for a mistake made by the parents?

Those mother , and they are mothers in 95% of cases, are working. They are raising the next generation who will build and clean your houses. The ones who's low paid work props up your pension fund. The ones who even if they are surplus to requirement will place downward pressure on wages and keep profits and investment returns high. I can understand someone working minimum wage being a bit miffed at the parent next door who doesn't work and gets benefits for their kids, but not those who benefit so well from mass population, both at home and abroad. You have a good life because these mums, like the mums before them, are raising the next generation of workers. How dare you seek to emiserate and impoverish them even further by attacking their children of all people who are completely innocent in this scenario.

I'm all for the cap. If you can't afford to raise a child, you shouldn't be having one.

Its so easy to say people shouldn't be getting pregnant and shouldn't be having kids, but they do. Why should the kids have to suffer?

We generally have a good income and a good life. I would have an abortion because I can't afford three children. I can't give three children I could give to two children.

If people cannot afford children because they can't afford to not get £60 a month, then they really shouldn't be getting pregnant. I know accidents happen but most are just careless.

FWIW my #2 costs the state far, far more than my #3.

Pesky disability benefits.

Yes if they are in an abusive relationship they have to leave.

DV services were decimated before covid and the there's been loads in the news about DV increasing during lockdown, child abuse and CSA.

The insurance thing is quite funny if it wasn't so sad. Tens of thousands of women lose their jobs every year because they are pregnant. Losing any benefits provided by work etc.

The hardening of attitudes is something I'm seeing across MN. I think maybe because people are feeling at risk because of covid/ Brexit combo and the me and mine thing kicks in.

I don't understand the punish the kids for the actions of their parents thing but anyway.

I think according to this thread none of that is important.

In order to get this extra support, you must not be living with the other biological parent of the child. You will be asked to confirm this

Quote from that form. It's not like things are that simple, is it? Women don't just LTB the instance they are subjected to sexual violence.

So the woman who is morally entitled to this, cannot claim it until she leaves. But part of why she does not leave may be financial dependence due to the child cap! Catch 22.

And why should any child in Britain go hungry because his or her parents aren't the right kind of deserving poor?

Not to mention, the knock on effects of poverty cost society more. Hungry children who don't concentrate at school. Children who under-achieve. Children who are in poorer health (increasing costs both directly through the NHS, and in their reduced potential as part of the workforce later). Increased crime. Increased pressure on the courts and prison system.

I don’t think it should ‘pay’ to have more children. That’s what did happen to SOME people prior to the cap. I wanted more children but cannot afford any more, so I stopped. My brother had 8 and had more money than I and my husband did. Cheap rent, free school meals. Latest PlayStation and Xbox, dvds galore. He told me it wasn’t worth working and he was right. Yes we should be paid a living wage but wages don’t always cover the expense of lots of
Children and I honestly don’t think that it’s fair to have a child KNOWING you don’t have the income and just expect the tax payer to foot the bill when they have to make adjustments if they can’t afford it.

I don't avoid fwr. Have definitely posted here before.

Maybe I came across as smug, wasn't intentional. In my mind, insurance is part of how I look after my kids. To make sure they would be provided for if we couldn't.

Of course that is grossly unfair if insurance is too expensive. How you square that circle, I have absolutely no idea.

It's also a bit of a leap to connect my views with forced abortion. Not to mention deeply offensive.

It is possible to be a feminist and believe in responsible family planning. Of course these are always cases that would be considered exceptional. Rape is the worst end of that, but multiple births, contraception failure, redundancy etc all play a part.

There are many reasons why I'm not a politician, but just because I have a different view doesn't make me Katie Hopkins.

Abusive men don't keep women pregnant for the additional benefit money. They do it to keep a woman trapped and vulnerable. If there is less money, then the bits that do get to the woman and children are less, it won't make abusive men start using condoms.

The proof of rape shit is one of the worst things I have ever seen our government do. For a lot of babies born of rape, it is the first time they have had to formalise that in writing and one of the first parts of their child's paper trail. When they should be enjoying their newborn instead they are being retraumatised telling job centre staff about it. It's just not ok.

Sorry new phone typing is hit and miss.