The Baroness takes on La Leche League

The thought of a baby ending up with Spironolactone in its blood stream, is quite frankly, horrifying.

I think it's a great letter - although I do think their is weakness in her argument about the use of the anti-emetic drug to trigger 'milk' production, in the narrow sense of its effect on the babies being fed - as it is prescribed to women struggling to produce milk, so there is years-long precedent for this off-licence use.

I don't have the links to hand, but I believe the dosages taken by women (under strict control) were a magnitude smaller than those taken by the transwoman recently

From the UK Breastfeeding Network:
The maximum dose as a galactagogue should be 10mg three times a day. This prescription should be reviewed at 7 days and further prescriptions should be considered at a reducing dose.

and from the single tracked induced lactation paper from 2018

www.researchgate.net/publication/322583718_Case_Report_Induced_Lactation_in_a_Transgender_Woman

The patient was started on domperidone 10 mgpo tid.....The patient’s first follow-up visit occurred at 1month....The domperidone dose was in-creased to 20 mg po qid...Our patient continuedto take spironolactone while breastfeeding...Throughout this process, the patient used domperi-done

(po qid means by mouth, 4 times a day, po tid = by mouth 3 times a day)

It's entirely different to inducing lactation in women - higher doses, longer term, and with other hormones/blockers.

LLLGB have gone on about using inclusive language but say they still use mother and 'mothering' which is all very well (and what am I meant to be grateful?) but it doesn't count for much if when they say mother they also mean fathers or any other man for that matter.

How can women trust this charity now since they don't use standard managing to mean what we think it means?

I love the Baroness.

xx

I think it was important that she did discuss the legal meaning of the word mother in this context, ie the birthing parent for want of a better word, not an identity or a performative role. All recently-delivered women are uniquely vulnerable and shouldn’t be cast aside as irrelevant as soon as the baby is born.

This is interesting as it does imply that transmen as ‘mothers’ are just as important in the LLL remit, but that any male parent, however they identify, however hands on they want to be or whatever they want the baby to call them (eg Sam Smith being Mummy... fine it’s just words) is not the same as a birth mother.

How far does the remit widening go... all dads can lactate, wet nursing being an added extra for a childminder/nanny/grandma? It undermines the unique, natural “4th trimester“ theory that has been pressed into new mothers for the last couple of decades, many of whom report a sense of judgement/failure if feeding doesn’t go to plan or patchy/absent support when they need it.

And if LLL are changing their remit, they need to publicise it and recalibrate their charitable aim, if that's possible. Not bury it in a page at the back.

I think it's a great letter - although I do think their is weakness in her argument about the use of the anti-emetic drug to trigger 'milk' production, in the narrow sense of its effect on the babies being fed - as it is prescribed to women struggling to produce milk, so there is years-long precedent for this off-licence use.

The issue is that (regardless of the politics around breastfeeding) LLL has a specific remit, it believes that breast is best for the health and the wellbeing of baby and mother. Whether you, or I, disagree that with view is by the by, the point is that LLL is not fulfilling its mission as a charitable organisation by supporting transwomen who (for some reason) want to breastfeed babies women have given birth to, or welcoming them into breastfeeding groups.

To be very honest, I sometimes find the push on women to breastfeed unsettling. Some women beat themselves up so much if it is hard or if they have low milk supply.

And this is so very true. The pressure can be way to high.

Mind you I was told by a young male doctor that as a geriatric first time mother I may have more trouble than most . Not helpful ....

To be very honest, I sometimes find the push on women to breastfeed unsettling. Some women beat themselves up so much if it is hard or if they have low milk supply. I don’t know this particular charity, but if anything can be done to help women whilst still acknowledging that breastfeeding is hard, stressful and sometimes not the right choice in your particular circumstances I applaud that. And I do not think any male born who is keen on validation should be allowed within a mile.

Has any man, ever, done that? I was under the impression that, despite some attempts, and the conclusion that those attempts are '10 times more electric than what a partner does to you' that effective feeding has never happened?

I suspect the Baroness who has been in advocacy positions for women and children since the 80s has developed her style based on what gets taken notice of. She has also done this at the international representation level for both representing women and children and as a trade envoy. In diplomacy. While she may not get everything covered as she is not perfect, she does get answers, (while my letters to the same person is usually ignored), and she does follow up if something is missed by the person responding.

“Hum ho, I don’t actually like her letter. it uses some emotive terms and that will make it easier to dismiss”

I have a tendency to want to use scientific and factual arguments on the grounds that they are more difficult to dismiss, and yet look how far transactivists have come while relying almost entirely upon sentiment and emotion. I find the baroness’ style interesting as she uses legal facts alongside emotive persuasion. I suspect it is probably quite effective.

Just when you think that it cannot get anymore bonkers. Then I read one poster questioning the motivation for anyone to breastfeed and the helpful answer.

I wasn’t even allowed allergy medicine when I was nursing. The thought of all extra hormones making their way into small babies without any safety considerations makes me so sick. It is not for the babies sake.

Great letter.

Intrigued by these lactating drugs though. As someone who genuinely struggled with breastfeeding to the point my baby dehydrated and I was told by the nurse I had the lowest supply she'd seen in 30 years I was told I could not have anything to assist me. What does one have to do to have these magical drugs? Why are they presented as so readily available because to most women they aren't. But ok for men?

Brilliant letter and judging by a few posts on this thread, it has rustled a few jimmies. Good. Chest feeding artificially chemically induced non milk fluid into innocent babies mouths is fecking repulsive

Going back to the drugs thing... there are very strict rules about keeping back milk from dairy cows who are being treated with drugs that could potentially be secreted in milk, a whole tanker load of milk can be rejected if one cow is on treatment and that milk goes in the tank. Makes you think doesn’t it.

Ah ok @Aesopfable - I misinterpreted your tone sorry!

I was more thinking, even if you were wanting to be ‘inclusive’ in your language towards transmen (and if you believed TMAM) then ‘breastfeeding’ would still be the correct term.

It's certainly not within their remit, hence the Baroness highlighting the charity's mission statement and objectives.

An additional point to make about LLL and their commitment to mothers. All babies have mothers. A transwoman attempting to breastfeed a baby will reduce the time that baby spends at its mother's breast, making it much more likely her natural supply will not be brought in effectively. I'm pretty sure LLL, if asked what a dad can do to help a breastfeeding mother, would say the answer is NOT to give a bottle (of expressed milk our formula) but would instead list all the other ways they could support the nursing mother and bond with their child. But somehow when a transwoman is involved, what should be the central ducking aim of LLL - supporting the mother's breastfeeding relationship with her child - goes out of the window.

I won’t mention the other professionally done photo I discussed on the other thread where a real live baby was involved as a prop.

No no. It is only for the same reason that mothers feed their babies....