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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Bunburying and wassailing into winter - thread 7

993 replies

CaraDuneRedux · 02/12/2020 11:41

Time for a new thread. Please can someone c&p the header post? (Am on phone.)

OP posts:
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OwBist · 11/02/2021 16:41

I've just read a piece on fb, posted, but not written by, ReSisters, about the "10" different types of people who are discriminated against due to their various biological functions. It was quite good. I'm a bit of a luddite and am rubbish with clicky links, but will have a go if it's allowed - do I have to go to the source, rather than the FB link?

ArabellaScott · 11/02/2021 15:50

Good stuff! Good idea for a thread.

StillAWoman2 · 11/02/2021 10:46

@ArabellaScott

No, missed that one, Still. Was it on FWR or elsewhere?
It was on FWR, no one had answered yet, I typed up an answer but it wouldnt post my answer when i looked the thread had gone
DeaconBoo · 11/02/2021 10:22

"calm down dear, no-one's going to take your mother's day cards off the shelves of Waitrose".
That's a classic example of trolling. Trolling didn't used to mean making stuff up or being rude to people online - it was to deliberately post something that was just 'on topic' enough to not be ignored but a ludicrous argument or derail. Everyone gets indignant, everyone ends up talking about it, even if it's to laugh about how silly it is. Job done.

(I'm not up to speed with which AIBU thread this was though!)

ArabellaScott · 11/02/2021 10:01

No, missed that one, Still. Was it on FWR or elsewhere?

StillAWoman2 · 11/02/2021 09:59

Did anyone else see the thread started just now to capture cases where places have started to refer to cervix havers ? I typed up a reply and it had vanished Confused Annoying because I took some time to check info before I did my reply

DaisiesandButtercups · 11/02/2021 09:43

Thank you Cara, brilliant post.

ArabellaScott · 11/02/2021 09:41

when someone's talking shit, don't assume that it's because they're stupid (though they may well be) - ask what work the shit is doing in their rhetorical position.

Yes, absolutely. Though I also think quite often distraction and gish galloping is as much the aim as anything else - so I tend to see what else is not being discussed or what other threads are running concurrently - dead cats feature quite frequently.

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 11/02/2021 08:55

Baked beans with Weetabix is banned under the Geneva Convention.

😂

CaraDuneRedux · 11/02/2021 08:47

The AIBU thread took a very bizarre turn overnight with accusations that half of us weren't mothers at all then a weird period of "calm down dear, no-one's going to take your mother's day cards off the shelves of Waitrose", leading me to post the following (apols for cutting and pasting, but it kind of occurred to me in the small hours of the morning that this wasn't weird random non-sequiturs, there had to be a purpose to the arguing style).

When I see a really bizarre derail or non-sequitur going on, I always wonder "what work is it doing in someone's argument?"

So last night's derail of "at least half of you aren't even mothers" - what did the poster feel they were achieving with that completely nonsensical assertion? That we're in fact spinster flower arrangers at the local fundamentalist church, inflamed by the Daily Mail? Or right wing trolls funded by American Evangelicals? Or Russian bots in a troll farm in St Petersburgh?

I presume the point of the exercise was this - it's a fundamental tenet of the new puritan orthodoxy that you cannot question people's lived experience. So when you have a large group of people (mothers, in this instance) saying "respect our lived experience and call us women, because us being women has a profound practical and political impact on the barriers and discrimination we face in everyday life" what - within your own world view that people's assertions about their own lived experience must not be challenged - is left to you as an arguing position? Presumably only an assertion of "You're not really mothers at all, you're pretending to be for evil reasons."

Or I guess the other strategy left to you is to deflect. Hence the frankly bizarre side-track into mother's day cards.

"Okay so you can't talk about how women's biology is weaponised against them systematically by a male dominated system - you can talk about individual disembodied body parts and bodily functions - menstruators, birthing persons, people with cervixes - but you must not connect the dots and say 'all this shit is happening to the same group of people - women, because historically women have always been treated as second class human beings.' But don't worry, No one's going to take away your mother's day cards... Now calm down dear."

I suppose my TLDR version of this is - when someone's talking shit, don't assume that it's because they're stupid (though they may well be) - ask what work the shit is doing in their rhetorical position.

In this instance it's about denying that woman and mother are not just fluffy self-descriptions, they have profound practical, political and economic consequences for women. Consequences which you can't identify your way out of by saying you're a transman, and consequences which don't bludgeon you over the head if you're a transwoman.

OP posts:
SophocIestheFox · 10/02/2021 14:07

@littlbrowndog

Running free again on AIBU💃💃💃
Glorious. I love a partially digested and misrepresented link Grin
littlbrowndog · 10/02/2021 13:06

Running free again on AIBU💃💃💃

ArabellaScott · 10/02/2021 13:03

No. Baked beans with Weetabix is banned under the Geneva Convention.

I used web.archive.org/ to archive, I love that site and also make the odd donation.

CaraDuneRedux · 10/02/2021 12:34

God looking at that photo, barf.

Makes me wonder though...

Mostly the direction of traffic is "Get banned from Twitter, arrive on MNet." Could Lang have done the reverse?

OP posts:
AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 10/02/2021 11:41

I may have to LTB: husband just said he thinks that might work to some extent. The only thing saving him is that he says he's not interested enough to want to try it.

MaudTheInvincible · 09/02/2021 23:52

That site really is a cesspit

ErrolTheDragon · 09/02/2021 23:35

Baked beans are fine.

Weetabix is ok, with cold milk and maybe some sort of fruit. I've not had any in the house for years but iirc it's not sticky (far less so than porridge, for instance)

But W&BB...no.

littlbrowndog · 09/02/2021 23:29

But Errol why would you even have that in your kitchen. It belongs in the diy cupboard for sticking stuff together

ErrolTheDragon · 09/02/2021 23:28

The only excuse for that is if you're really having to live out of your store cupboard and you're on about day 53.

FionaMacCool · 09/02/2021 23:26

My eyes! my eyes are burning!

MaudTheInvincible · 09/02/2021 23:16

I saw this tweet and thought of you all in here. It needs a content warning. It's quite abominable.

Bunburying and wassailing into winter - thread 7
Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/02/2021 18:17

That's useful to know nauticant.

nauticant · 09/02/2021 15:54

Did you know that archive.fo/ is more likely to succeed in archiving a webpage but is less likely to be around in 10 years time while web.archive.org/ is the opposite?

DeaconBoo · 09/02/2021 15:22

Pretty sure that's what I tried! No matter.