Excellent: Janice Turner on Keira

Pmsl at the Fox killer
Can’t see this being over turned

Thanks! Keira is a wonderful person
One particular thing that stood out was “GIDS were pressured by activists to lower puberty blocking age to ten”

I wonder if we will ever find out who these shadowy activists were?

I know one particular young person who was about 13 when they decided to transition after losing their father in a tragic accident. They were previously a female lesbian but shortly after the accident they decided they were a heterosexual male.
Of the two transmen we know best, one transitioned shortly after her father's heart attack, the other shortly after her father's stroke (both mid-teens).

I am sure that the sex stereotype and homophobia thing was part of it, but reading Keira's story does make me think - there could also have been all sorts of subconscious things going on like "if I am a big strong man I can replace my father and look after my mother who is not able to look after herself". I do think that to an extent the soul thinks in metaphors. And I noticed in the judgment that Keira spoke of being a big tall man as having been an essential part of the fantasy.

What a remarkable woman Keira is. I had no idea her younger life was so difficult and it's sad that she didn't have anyone she could turn to. I hope she can find peace now.

Thanks Errol and rogdmum for the shares. It seems unbelievably irresponsible that GIDS failed to explore some of the reasons why Keira was unhappy being a girl before offering her puberty blockers. Keira has been unbelievably brave in sharing her experiences, of course has Mrs A. I can't believe that GIDS has been so unaccountable for so many years. When you think about the way that surgeons' operating rates are made public, I just don't understand how GIDS has continued to get funding without any accountability for what they do.

Thanks for sharing that Erroll. I was listening to Last Podcast on the Left about lobotomies and i did think the parallels were remarkable.

One of the sections in Janice's column today is about SG and newsnight.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/would-your-marriage-withstand-a-tandem-test-l2npknr38?shareToken=9cbde556aa72f0f6a61a92431201a0ad

It's strange how there isn't a push to say "Transmen are men" - if her story was reversed we would be told under no uncertain circumstances that she is a woman and we must accept that without question.

Turner is so brilliant. I want to be her when I grow up!

(Hey! I'm in the wrong body! Where the clinic to transition to someone smarter better faster and just plain all there? ?? [razz] )

Bloody hell, Annna.

Thanks for sharing
Beginning to believe it

Such a great article. Janice is a great writer and has done so much to expose the absolute vacuum of solid evidence for this life-changing treatment.

It's hard reading about the effects of the drugs on Keira but I think it's necessary for people to understand that there is no going back.

Honestly she is such a dignified young woman, I'm in awe of her strength. She deserves a peaceful and happy life now - and what a legacy to be proud of.

Emily Maitlis on Newsnight was brilliant also.

It's as if the curtains have been thrown open and some light can shine in.

I do hope the young people on these drugs who will now have treatments ceased, are given the very best psychological support to come to terms with what comes next. No one is "happy" that young people are going to be upset but it's the right ruling and will result in less harm done overall.

I read (most of) the judgement.

How the Tavistock was actually being run in terms of things like tracking data on patients in order to be able to assess outcomes struck me as shocking. I suspect how little they actually knew about what they were doing didn't help them here. It was mind-blowing and regardless of the moral and ethical issues around this (and I am not minimising those at all) the fact that people were afraid to speak out on the operational weaknesses alone is absolutely terrifying to me.

Unless I am reading this wrong. Did anyone else have his reaction or is it just me?

Thanks for sharing those articles.

The specifics of Keira Bell's case are heartbreaking.

I’m very glad to read this judgement. There are a number of issues that can cause children to feel like they don’t fit in; being trans is not the only explanation.

I know one particular young person who was about 13 when they decided to transition after losing their father in a tragic accident. They were previously a female lesbian but shortly after the accident they decided they were a heterosexual male. They took their father’s name and started wearing his old clothes. As their body changed due to taking hormones, they would constantly compare themselves to him, and expressed pleasure when anyone said how much they looked like him. Clearly grief was having an effect upon their decision to transition, but the NHS never dealt with this possibility, just supported them in transitioning. Under this new ruling the likelihood is that this person would have received grief counselling and other types of support instead of being encouraged to transition.

Here's the main article from the Times too,

Wow, that is very strongly worded. Justifiably so! It's a refreshing change. Usually news articles that touch on this subject are mealy-mouthed and indirect, even when the content they are reporting is absolutely damning. I'm heartened to see such straightforward reporting of the facts.

because they don't believe it.

And they've gone into schools, colleges, universities, government departments, police forces, everywhere, to try and convince other people not to believe it, either.

When the government said do not associate with organisations that rely on stereotypes, this is exactly what they mean. They need to go further, though.

It's not enough. Because the ideology is embedded in so many places.

Keira Bell also a guest on the Feminist Current podcast this week, although interview was recorded a few days before the verdict. Haven’t listened yet.

Yes, the question is why did no one tell teenaged Keira that being a lesbian is fine, that being a girl who doesn't want to look feminine is fine, that being a girl who doesn't want to play football is fine?

because they don't believe it. The absolute sexism of the people involved in what happened to Keira just shines through. they didn't tell her it's OK to be a gender non confirming girl, because they don't believe it is OK.

I've typed and deleted several swear words while writing the above. But actually it doesn't need it, does it?

members of the medical community permanently damaged the body of a teenaged girl because she wasn't behaving how they think teenaged girls should behave

That is an excellent article. And yes, the comments just hammer it all home. Children are transitioning because they are not allowed to be gay, or gender nonconforming. It's not just sexist, regressive and restrictive, it's mind blowingly unethical to use such extreme measures to address what is basically rank sexism.

Everyone is now talking about 'trans' children, why they want to change, who is advising them, where it's all coming from. I'm strongly reminded of the attempts to talk here about Jazz Jennings, and how they were often shutdown. I'm not blaming HQ, they had to be reported to be deleted.

The lid is well and truly off.

The comments are very good too, intelligent and thoughtful. The comparison with other brutal medical treatments is shocking to read but pertinent.