Susie Green and Keira Bell on Newsnight

I agree with pearpickingporky that, tempting as it is to bathe in the delicious schadenfreude, we do have to give people a way back. Entrenching the position by calling them all idiots won’t help. I hope I’m a big enough person to manage it. Am trying to channel JKR in the classiness stakes, and not my natural self, which is to launch into a spirited rendition of the I Was Right dance.

No conclusive evidence but it’s suspected eunuchs actually have a longer life span: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/castration-men-live-longer-eunuchs-studied-korean-records/story%3fid=17310420

Correcting my above mistake: Jazz was 6 at the time of the family’s first TV interviews: m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ_BHY5RolA

The castrati are interesting, they were tall, and had a long, deep ribcage which affected the sound when combined with vocal cords that had not been altered by puberty. It is an apt comparison because hundreds of boys were castrated for each one that became a success. They would get abuse in the street as so recognisable, with their height and lack of facial hair.
I think Jackie Green was given drugs to stop any more growth .

In the tweets, Jackie says that they told their parents age 5 that 'God made a mistake' in making Jackie a boy. Jackie then goes on to say that for a long time they were made to play with action men and other 'boys toys' when what they wanted to play with was Barbies and mermaid toys. Jackie also says that they had surgery to correct their 'small birth defect'.

Yes, Susie Green is very open about it. Husband wanted a masculine boy and banned certain toys, and SG herself thought that the child might be gay based on the child's behaviour from the age of 2.

I'd be so tempted to make a big deal of people's reverse ferreting, but wouldn't, because we need to make sure everyone can change their mind, and support that, as there are an awful lot of people who need to.

Just watching that video and my jaw just dropped. They talk how they want to keep things as normal as possible, and don’t use the family’s last name to help protect their privacy. This family then go on to have a reality tv show detailing every aspect of Jazz’s life including surgery and Jazz’s own description of never having experienced an orgasm?

Words fail me...

Interestingly, a GP friend of mine who has completely swallowed and been an enthusiastic promoter of all the trans woke glitter stuff ... has deleted every tweet he's ever made about Mermaids.

He is also now starting to say that it is clinically problematic that trans people's health records don't necessarily reflect anatomical sex as they are not being picked up for the right screening programmes

Gives me hope

Do you think the confession jts all anecdotal means that they will all stop using those fake stats in the "training " now...

Yes, I cannot believe there isnt clear and robust data on all of this? How can Susie Green still only have 'anecdotal evidence'?!!!

Wow, that Jazz Jennings video is already starting to date quite badly....

I would imagine Jazz went on the medical pathway at a younger age than most (purely based on the fact Jazz has been socially transed from 4/5 on telly since the age of 11)

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bJw3s85EcxM

Blocking puberty entirely/blocking from tanner stage 2/3/4 will all affect growth in different ways.

If only someone had actually tracked the data, eh?

That's really interesting about the bone growth stopping in puberty. For some reason I had always assumed that puberty blockers would stop bone growth but the concept of blockers blocking the signal to stop bone growth totally makes sense.

Nikkie de Jaeger is very tall and big built and I used to think 'wow, and that's with puberty blockers, imagine how tall they would have been without' - but it makes more sense that the blockers caused that height and frame.

Although I just looked it up and Jazz Jennings is only 5ft 2 so I don't know?

Does all that mean that people who have been on blockers will have joint pain etc because of abnormal bone growth?

I have just come across a series of tweets that Jackie Green wrote in reply to Janice Turner in 2018 (handily retweeted by a very active TRA today).

In the tweets, Jackie says that they told their parents age 5 that 'God made a mistake' in making Jackie a boy. Jackie then goes on to say that for a long time they were made to play with action men and other 'boys toys' when what they wanted to play with was Barbies and mermaid toys. Jackie also says that they had surgery to correct their 'small birth defect'.

This does all rather go against the current Mermaids line that a) gender identity has absolutely nothing to do with stereotypes including toys and b) that no one is born in the wrong body.

It's just all such contradictory bullshit.

According to their twitter, Jackie has just recently set up a Tiktok account with a hashtag of #transisbeautiful and I really really hope that Jackie is living a happy and contented life as a transwoman. Because the alternative just doesn't even bear thinking about.

www.nature.com/articles/srep28463/

Even if all these skeletal markers confirmed the advanced age at death of Pacchierotti (81 years old), the epiphyseal lines on the iliac crests were visible (Fig. 3). These lines usually are fused at 23 years old and no more traces can be found in 90–100% of over 35 years old males.

Castrati were usually tall, with a large barrel-shaped chest, infantile larynx, long, spindly legs. Pacchierotti’s bones confirmed these characteristics, in particular the height, that was estimated measuring femurs, tibiae and humeri length and gave a value of around 191 cm.

This seems to be the original veterinary study?

(Page 2 onwards, it’s a proper scientific paper but the only place I could find it published without needing a log in was at a breeders website)

rockymtnlabradoodles.com/wp-content/uploads/Early-Spay_neuter.pdf

Interesting. This is actually from a vet but does it apply to humans too?

Puberty initiates a release of hormones that help close the epiphyseal plates on long bones. Absent this signal, the long bones grow beyond their intended length and interfere with the normal size and mechanical relationship between bone and joint.

I wonder if anything about this will be on QT tonight? Or maybe it is too recent.

PotholeParadies that would suggest that blocking puberty of boys would make them extra tall?

Dogs aren’t people, but early neutering in large dogs seems to develop taller dogs.

I wish Emily Maitliss had asked Susie Green why she thought so many children were gender dysphoric.

What was the cause?

Suggestion about complaining to the BBC.

twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1334246406266171400