Norway criminalises 'transphobic' comments made in private

Omg you all can't be transphobic any more how terrible

If people can come to Mumsnet, or go to twitter, and follow interesting people, who raise these concerns, why should they pay for "news content" which is a time-suck without... er... actual content?

(That's leaving aside the danger that people will go and consume misleading, even false, content. That's also a loss for news organisations: those people will unlikely be reconverted into news readers, let alone paying subscribers.)

Never mind bloody Norway, the sodding SNP are currently debating introducing this in Scotland!
Hate speech includes anything said in your own home deemed hateful, and will carry a seven year prison sentence.
There is already uproar about it from the church and the performing arts, as the SNP say that actors and directors can also be imprisoned for hate speech in a stage play or film.

The police are going to be busy.

The point isn't about getting convictions. It's that people will realise that any statement made at home about the gender identity ideology could carry the risk of the Police making a visit. It's the silencing and intimidation effect.

How are they going to prove this when it's one word against another in private, don't know what the statistics are in Norway but we seem to have a problem convicting rapists for this reason do we not? Nice to see they have overcome this when women are the defendants and not the victims....

This is about LGBT rights not just trans rights, unless I've mis-read. Also the bar is going to be very high.

The violence against the gay community has increased in recent years, that should be a concern. I'm sure some of this is folk devils and moral panic. Norway is very liberal in it's laws, so I think this is just a follow on. Small country, difficult to comment when knowing so little about the social structures. If Norwegians are totally up for this, I'm not in the business of saying they're wrong.

My objections are when stealth and lack of citizen support are overridden. Someone may know more

I think it’s heading towards ‘she looked at me in a funny way...’

What do they mean by "private remarks" though?
That's a very half an article and wishy washy, doesn't actually say what it means - so the comments on here just seem to be speculating and scare mongering, I mean the article basically says sod all apart from "private remarks" which doesn't really explain anything.

We are heading back to the Salem witch hunts.

That private comments lead to public pillorying, loss of reputation, sacking is well established. Try asking Carol Thatcher.

If it is actually codified as an offence, then it's less capricious

I'm not surprised a country with a reputation for minimising inequalities is looking at whether private remarks should be protected. Of course I do expect them to cover everything contained in their Equality laws (no idea of theirs - anyone know?)

Under the penal code, people charged with violent crimes can receive harsher sentences if a judge decides their actions were motivated by someone’s sexual orientation or gender identity.

And presumably, again, if it is (as so often is the case) because someone is a biological woman, no harsher sentences there...

What a biased article. I would say that it was censored (no concrete examples or persuasive arguments against this law) except that the Thomson Reuters connection means Reuters likely wouldn't have made use of the freedom anyway...

Reuters may have no need to face readers directly, but news outlets in general are facing a crisis of reader faith. It doesn't help that one has to come to Mumsnet to a mention of freedom of speech, let alone suggestions upthread like:

Think about use cases, it's not going to be people having quiet GC chats at home, it'll be stuff like:
Kids wanting to transition using it against their "obstructive" parents.
Transitioning husbands using it against trans widows.

Why should we go to newspapers for "news", context, commentary, if they don't give any of that to us? Why should we pay?

Transitioning husbands using it against trans widows.

this is a horrific thought. But of course it will be used as a tool of domestic abuse. Any expression whatsoever of anger or displeasure or upset about the "transition" will be seen as dehumanising hate speech by some transitioning MtFs.

That is terrifying. Please goddess we don't go the same way... may sense prevail.

The lengths people will go to to police people's thoughts. Chilling.

Incredibly sinister. The gulags beckon.

Do they speak to their neighbours in Sweden, where the treatment of "trans" teenagers is being reined in as they wake up to the harms I wonder?

If Norwegian women are no longer allowed to mention their sex, perhaps we'd better do it for them. I'm inclined to buy a load of adult human female postcards, write "humans cannot change sex" on them and post them to MPs in Norway.

Is misogyny treated the same?

I woke up unusually early on Sunday. Put the tv on and there was a strange programme on about Finland. The general thrust seemed to be about how marvellous the government policy on trans issues is. It seems to be broadly self id for all, with the prime minister stating that anybody can declare themselves any gender and she would not have any right to an opinion. The focus was very much on transwomen.

There is a little part of ancient me that hopes everyone who has transitioned (physically or mentally) gets to be fully and officially accepted as a woman in all words, thoughts and deeds.

If only to watch the scrabble to reclaim penises or want to be a man again when they realise just exactly how the rights of women are being depleted.

Are there many trans people in positions of power and influence there? As opposed to women?

No human rights movement is this authoritarian, or has such a disproportionate affect on the rights of other groups such as women and gay people.

I can’t wait for them to start imprisoning women for saying they are not vulva owners, vagina smugglers, birthing parents, ciswomen and rebelling against the other inclusive words that exclude, you know, women.

So how it will go down...

Mum can I go into town of Saturday night with Tom?
No you’re too young to be going off into town.
But I want to. Jane gets to go into town.
Well that’s her parent choice. I think at 12 you are too young...
Well... if you don’t let me, I’ll tell that you said @@@@##!!!!!

1984 indeed.