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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times: Transman minister reports fellow clergyman for hate crime as they said that a relationship between a woman and a Transman was a same sex relationship

35 replies

334bu · 30/11/2020 12:39

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-investigate-alleged-hate-against-trans-clergy-qsqfrhskd?shareToken=f6674117c86e923858da90ebb3baa616

Rather odd article as there is certainly an element of homophobia in clergyman reported as they think homosexuality is wrong. However, that is not what they are being accused of. They are accused of making this Transman feel unsafe because they are not acknowledging that they have changed sex.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/11/2020 13:43

Yes.

Aesopfable · 30/11/2020 13:34

But the transman is in a same sex marriage (unless married to a transwoman)?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/11/2020 13:28

describing the marriage of anyone other than two heterosexuals as the result of “evil and wickedness”. sounds pretty bloody hateful to me. If 'hate speech' has to be a thing then this qualifies more than many other examples.

I agree and I'm not defending him, but this is a not uncommon religious view and not just among Christians. Are they often prosecuted for it?

I broadly agree that the FTM trans person was reasonable in asking for a video about themselves to be edited. But there are free speech concerns there as well.

I don't agree that this guy's comments about the falseness of transgender ideology were hate speech. I don't agree that making a critical video about gender identity ideology, responding to another video which promotes that ideology, is hate speech. I think it's far too easy for people with certain protected characteristics (not non trans women, obviously) to weaponise "hate crime" and "feeling unsafe" because someone doesn't agree with you and you are offended by that.

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 30/11/2020 13:10

Alex Clare-Young, Ben John and Andrea Williams make me feel unsafe. Should I report them all to the police?

Ben John's freedom of speech to say homosexuality is wrong is also my freedom of speech to say that homosexuality is just fine, actually.

S00LA · 30/11/2020 13:06

So these two people have different ideological / religious view points.

The first makes a video sharing his views.

The second makes a video sharing his view and NOT mentioning anyone personally. In fact his comments are targeting the policies of an organisation.

Yet the first man wants the second to take down his video, while he gets to keep his up. Because

“I felt that [his comments] were leading to personal harm to myself, my wife, and the others in the video. It feels as if he is denying LGBT people the right to be involved in Christian worship. It describes me and my wife as being in a same-sex marriage, which isn’t true. It made me feel very unsafe.”

If you take away the religious aspect, this all seems very familiar .....

Anxioustoddler · 30/11/2020 13:04

Whether you agree with trans ideology or not, the comments were certainly hateful, homophobic, transphobic and the trans person for their personal details removed is entirely reasonable.

ErrolTheDragon · 30/11/2020 12:58

Sounds like the most unholy mixture of homophobia, transphobia and also religious intolerance on the part of the complainant (while the complaint was re a CofE video, the minister is in the URC which has a long history of being more equalist than most other denominations).

describing the marriage of anyone other than two heterosexuals as the result of “evil and wickedness”. sounds pretty bloody hateful to me. If 'hate speech' has to be a thing then this qualifies more than many other examples.

Itsabloodyeuphonium · 30/11/2020 12:56

Tbf all minister requested was that the homophobe remove the references to them personally which I think is fair enough.

zanahoria · 30/11/2020 12:55

Give me an hour or two while I work out exactly what is going on

Aesopfable · 30/11/2020 12:53

They haven’t changed sex. You can’t.