Sunday Times today covering Keira's case

Coverage in the Times today - there's a thread with the sharetoken links, the one with Janice in the title.

I was just reading some of the comments below the Times article. This from someone who appears to have been there:-

There were many jaw dropping moments in this case, but perhaps the most memorable was the judge asking the defence counsel how a 10 year old could give informed consent when this meant losing sexual function as an adult, when the child could have no concept of what this means. Counsel replied that the child may grow up to be assexual

In case there aren't enough children to pay for them themselves?

This is a cut and paste of the text on that page:

‘In response to today’s news that trans youth in the UK will face even greater challenges in accessing the care they need on the NHS, we are proud to announce the launch of the GenderGP Charitable Fund.
We are inviting one-off or regular donations from anyone who would like to support someone with their transition. The resulting pot of money will be made available to people who might otherwise have struggled to pay for their care to be managed privately.
If you would like to contribute to the GenderGP Charitable Fund or apply to access the fund then please click on the following link: www.gendergp.com/charitable-fund/.
As a private service we do not receive any charitable or public funding, all of the fees paid by our service users go towards paying the team which runs the service. The funds raised through this initiative will go towards covering care for patients who are unable to access the care they need. Our ultimate goal is that no young trans person will have to experience a puberty that doesn’t align with their gender identity and that all trans people access the care they need to help them live their lives more easily.
All donations will go towards the necessary medical care needed for a trans person, with our focus on helping those most in need.
Young people whose mental health is suffering and are at risk of harm.
Those who are progressing through puberty that will cause life-changing body changes.
Those who do not have current financial means to support private care.
The medical evidence in favour of the proven interventions for trans people is clear, as are the effects of withholding treatment. GenderGP understands the need for timely, accessible care and the importance of receiving that care according to need rather than age.
At GenderGP, we work on a model of informed consent and each and every person who is prescribed medication, of any kind, is required to show that they fully understand the effects of such treatment, given the knowledge and evidence available to them.
If you are able to help a trans person to live their life more easily then please do let us know. We understand that not everyone will have money to give, so if you are able to support in any other way then please do get in touch via our Help Centre.

If you would like to speak to a member of our team about this post or any other matter relating to you or someone you support, please visit our Help Centre.’

So does ‘administered’ mean a patient taking their own medicine, or a health professional giving/sending a medicine to the patient?

Gender GP’s response is this, I’m not sure quite what they mean they will provide?: www.gendergp.com/gendergp-launches-charitable-fund-trans-youth-puberty-blockers/

Thanks for the GIDS link TavistockNews. gids.nhs.uk/information-following-judicial-review-judgment-december-2020 From looking at their FAQ for patients, I hadn’t previously understood that overseas to UK prescribing also came under this judgement, but it seems they do?:

Eg

I am currently on puberty blockers from a private provider – will these be stopped?
This judgment applies to the treatment, not to the provider, so all providers, public and private, are bound by it. See the responses above. This includes any treatment administered in England and Wales.

If my puberty blockers from GIDS are stopped, can I access them via private providers?
This judgment applies to the treatment, not to the provider, so all providers, public and private, are bound by it. See the responses above. This includes where providers are based overseas, but treatment is administered in the England and Wales.

If you are interested in knowing more
Lots of us are actually interested in knowing more, particularly about the long-term outcomes of GIDS patients and their treatment. Has it occurred to GIDS to perhaps record this somewhere?

NHS England moving quickly.

#bekind my arse

I think I'll save my kindness for the GIDS whistleblowers.

Here is what the Tavistock is telling all staff in the organisation to think in relation to the judgement.

"As you may know, or have seen in the media today, we have now had a judgment in the judicial review the Trust and its partners have been facing in respect of treatment with puberty blockers.

Though the ruling is clear that the practice of the Trust is not unlawful, we are clearly disappointed by today’s judgment and we understand that the outcome is likely to cause anxiety for patients and their families. Our first duty is to our patients, particularly those currently receiving hormone blocking treatment. We have been carefully planning how we can support them as well as possible.

If you are interested in knowing more, we have a statement on the GIDS website explaining where we are and next steps and trying to answer as many questions as possible in a Q&A. We will be updating this when we have further information later today or in the coming days.

Read more information on the GIDS website:
gids.nhs.uk/information-following-judicial-review-judgment-december-2020

It is important to remember that GIDS is largely a psycho-social service providing extensive support to children and young people facing issues relating to the development of their gender identity. We offer a safe and supportive environment to explore these issues. Only a minority of those referred to the service go on to access a physical intervention pathway.

At this time more than ever, it is important that we all pull together and support one another. Please be particularly kind to our GIDS colleagues and respectful of the work they have done, and the care that they will continue to offer."

Dear god I was 20 and really keen to get some piercings. Thankfully I was talked out of it by someone who cared - it would have been a stupid thing for me to do and for the wrong reasons. I was 20 for gods sake (with a degree, postgrad, job and a flipping mortgage).

From the BBC report

The charity said: "We believe very strongly that every young person has the right to make their own decisions about their body and that should not differ because somebody is trans."

Interesting pov. All decisions? Tattoos? Piercings? Anorexia? What ages? How they seemingly cannot grasp that that has far wider implications then just "someone who is trans" beats me.

I also remember a certain woman laughing about how small her son's penis prior to a sex change operation was after pb.

Is there any evidence that puberty would resume and this young person's development would progress in full, if they came off the blockers then?

I remember on a certain televised show that the options for vaginoplasty were colon or a tissue expander. No mention of coming off blockers and/or stopping hormones as an option to encourage growth. One would assume really that you "miss the window " so to speak.

Is there any evidence that puberty would resume and this young person's development would progress in full, if they came off the blockers then?

There's a statement by stonewall posted around the 600 mark on this thread.

Keira www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4094862-keira

Stonewall?

How can children’s organisations not support proper informed consent for child patients?

And she (and her lawyers) are meeting the baroness tomorrow... probably for cake and gin I hope.

When was that statement made/posted? Maybe the will start beep-beep-beeping as the back off me pretend they never said it?

www.barnardos.org.uk/news/joint-statement-barnardos-nspcc-national-childrens-bureau-and-childrens-society-about-gender

A concerning joint statement. These organisations need an eye kept on them.

MidClegs I do hope so. She's only been on T for about 10 months.

The problem is that once they are on the drugs that they believe are essential it is really hard to get them off.

My friend feels very mixed about the whole approach. She's quietly GC, but, absolutely terrified of the kid's suicidal ideation. I do get it.

I think they are buying the hormones from the Webberly's.