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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

493 replies

ExLLLeader · 27/11/2020 12:24

I picked this up on a recent Facebook post and could not quite believe it so made the following complaint/query and it is true. I was a La Leche League Leader for many years and am very upset to see how the organisation has lost its focus on the Mother and baby.

Complaint To The Board of Directors/Trustees

Dear Board members,

I was alarmed to see a post yesterday on the LLLGB Facebook page. The post in celebrating Transgender awareness week. The post links to the this page which states

LLLGB supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals. We do not discriminate based on sex, gender or gender identity.

And
Trans men, trans women and non-binary individuals may choose to breastfeed or chestfeed their babies.

And
Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.

I have two issues I wish to complain about and they relate to the idea that males/Transwomen can breastfeed.

LLLGB should not be promoting the idea that males can induce lactation to feed a baby. There is no evidence to say this is safe, only an anecdotal example of a case where a doctor in the US enabled this to happen using off label drugs. The focus of the paper is mainly on the desires of the male bodied person and there is little interest in the impact on the baby and indeed the mother. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241/ . I would hope you have also considered the fetishisation of breastfeeding which does not only apply to men watching women, males lactating is also a paraphilia.

Why would LLLGB of all organisations choose not to discriminate on the basis of sex as it is perfectly entitled to under the equalities act? By saying these two statements there is nothing to stop a male wishing to come to women only meetings. Even I presume, before the baby is born. Im not sure if you would require that the male considered themselves to be a woman by performing gender stereotypes or not. (The male in the study had no surgery so still had a functioning penis.) Does this entitle a male who has breastfed to apply for Leadership?

Yours Sincerely
(ExLLLeader)

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Dear (ExLLLeader)
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history. As lay breastfeeding counsellors, LLL Leaders role is to provide up to date and accurate information which individuals can use to inform their discussion with their healthcare provider.
Our groups have discretion to consider the needs of their communities when they decide who can attend. Some will by default be women only, however our support is and must always be open to anyone who needs support and information to breastfeed (which some individuals call chestfeeding). This would mean that a group would need to find a way to balance the needs of members who needed a single sex space, with the needs of an individual who needed chestfeeding support.
Eligibility for La Leche League Leadership is set by LLL International and can be found here: www.llli.org/get-involved/prerequisites/
As an organisation with a robust safeguarding culture, if we had concerns about an individual's motivation for seeking breastfeeding support we would take appropriate action to protect families and babies.
Best wishes (LLL Trustee)
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Dear (LLL Trustee)
Thank you for your reply, I have copied my complaint below as I was raising concerns about the male sex – i.e. Transwomen and breastfeeding and you have answered as if my concern is about female sexed i.e. trans men.

Best wishes (ExLLLeader)
_
Dear (ExLLLeader)
My apologies - I used the wrong word there. I should have said the protocol used by transwomen wishing to induce lactation is very similar to that used by women. The rest of my reply is intended to answer your points as raised.
(LLL Trustee)
___
Dear (LLL Trustee)
I am surprised to hear this. Would you therefor support a ‘Cis” man to breastfeed and provide the nutrients for a newborn baby?
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Not had an answer

OP posts:
Sweeetcornbananaf · 29/11/2020 18:51

La Leche League supporting men in their fetish.

paintedpanda · 29/11/2020 18:44

When I had DD, I struggled in the hospital to breastfeed so ended up straight on formula. I was a very young new mum, scared, anxious, and absolutely clueless. When I was discharged, the midwife was going through some paperwork and when she got to the bosom buddies leaflet, she screwed it up in front of me and said "oh well you don't need that, you're bottle feeding". I felt utterly utterly useless.

I also tried to relactate when my supply reduced because DS wouldn't latch on properly. I had really bad PND and I just wanted to feed and bond with my baby. My GP said no, they wouldn't prescribe domperidone. My HV said she could see I desperately wanted to bond with him but didn't offer any support for feeding or bonding.

I actually find this quite hurtful that TW will be offered the support that I desperately needed but never got.

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 29/11/2020 18:39

I’d rather watch Caras puppy...

scentedgeranium · 29/11/2020 17:33

Now I have images in my head I can't unsee. A man in lingerie nursing a baby? An insult to all the women who have ever tried to breast feed and for whatever reason have struggled.

CaraDuneRedux · 29/11/2020 16:29

As an aside, our new puppy tried to latch on... fuck me it hurt.

Cailleach1 · 29/11/2020 16:23

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

Technically wolves could feed babies - Remus and Romulus and all that. So the league could technically approve this too?
Ah, to do new things, irrespective of whether they are bonkers or not is the way to go. The thing is not to appear old fashioned.

Maybe animal shelters will be calling for women to nurse litter of puppies who have lost their mother. Also lost the father dog (or else they could induce 'lactation' in him instead).

Or maybe .... .? No, animal cruelty orgs would call it out as accessorising the animals.

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 29/11/2020 15:46

Lords - Can you imagine growing up and coming across those photos of you as a baby?

laudemio · 29/11/2020 13:15

Christ that lingerie infant feeding man photo is so perverted and revolting. It is also seriously offensive to those of us who have breastfed our children. It is difficult, tiring and wonderful and not remotely sexual. What a vile man and poor unwitting baby.

Datun · 29/11/2020 13:08

@Winesalot

I remember seeing a thing online where a person borrowed a baby - not even theirs - to feed and have photos taken.

I have seen a photo series done by a professional photographer/artist featuring a male dressed in lingerie if I remember correctly holding an infant in feeding position with both nipples erect. The infant was being used as a prop in a fantasy. This is what the ‘world has moved on’ to allow as art. New borns being used in fantasies.

Ugh.
SophocIestheFox · 29/11/2020 12:42

@Winesalot

I remember seeing a thing online where a person borrowed a baby - not even theirs - to feed and have photos taken.

I have seen a photo series done by a professional photographer/artist featuring a male dressed in lingerie if I remember correctly holding an infant in feeding position with both nipples erect. The infant was being used as a prop in a fantasy. This is what the ‘world has moved on’ to allow as art. New borns being used in fantasies.

If that’s moving on, I want to move the fuck back Sad
Winesalot · 29/11/2020 12:38

I remember seeing a thing online where a person borrowed a baby - not even theirs - to feed and have photos taken.

I have seen a photo series done by a professional photographer/artist featuring a male dressed in lingerie if I remember correctly holding an infant in feeding position with both nipples erect. The infant was being used as a prop in a fantasy. This is what the ‘world has moved on’ to allow as art. New borns being used in fantasies.

bellinisurge · 29/11/2020 12:30

The world is moving on insofar as minimising the needs and requirements of women is "ok" again in the eyes of the Wokus Dei.

RealityNotEssentialism · 29/11/2020 12:29

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

I remember seeing a thing online where a person borrowed a baby - not even theirs - to feed and have photos taken.
So so grim
ThatIsNotMyUsername · 29/11/2020 12:27

I remember seeing a thing online where a person borrowed a baby - not even theirs - to feed and have photos taken.

AldiAisleofCrap · 29/11/2020 12:19

@Masssivefuckup thank you , was a stressful time as it sounds for you.

AldiAisleofCrap · 29/11/2020 12:17

@DidoLamenting yes I am in the UK by GP prescribed after the infant feeding team in my hospital requested them to. Jack Newman is very respected by the team there.

Winesalot · 29/11/2020 12:10

The world is moving on and we are trying to keep up to date and ensure that there is nobody who needs us and doesn't get the support.

This is completely tone deaf. So, the world has moved on to now allow males to use drugs to induce lactation where the effect of that milk has not been even remotely adequately researched and LLL is merely accepting this as ‘keeping up to date’.

And anyone questioning this is therefore ‘out of date’. There is NO acknowledgement of why females would feel uncomfortable with having males included in their groups. None at all. It was just wiped away with ‘the world has moved on’.

Sadly, the only way forward is for alternative groups that cater for females needs as allowed by the EA to be formed.

sqirrelfriends · 29/11/2020 11:17

@MedusasBadHairDay

I remember the hassle I had when my DC were babies and lactose intolerant, we were warned against soya formula because of something to do with hormones in it? I couldn't breastfeed because I was taking particular prescription drugs, am I right in remembering that you are advised against certain over the counter painkillers too?
You're right, you can't take anything with codeine in.

My skin was awful through pregnancy and breastfeeding because I couldn't use any retinol or acids. If they expect those things to affect baby, how about male hormones, artificial hormones and lactation drugs.

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/11/2020 11:15

You wouldn’t believe some of the shit some women will come out with to appear woke and an ally. Do you remember that guy who was writing on Facebook about how he wants to simulate a pregnancy and was bitching because his estranged wife (whom he still lived with along with his kids) wouldn’t play along and let him ‘go into labour” in their house. He then started talking about breastfeeding and how he was so sad he’d never get to experience it and there were legit some handmaidens on there offering to let him ‘breastfeed’ their own babies. Apparently, ‘not a newborn but my 5-month old, sure’. These women should have their kids removed from them imo but I can definitely imagine some woke types being totally supportive of it

Oh god yes that one, didn't it all go a bit wrong in the end? Not long or painful enough etc ? Another fine example of the logical conclusion that you end up at when supporting without question.

I dont know whether to laugh or cry at the faux ignorance on this kind of article. I mean I guess they cant come right out and say certain things, but to not even hint at a question behind the potential motivation for some, Kind of makes the whole article sound like a lie.

Datun · 29/11/2020 11:14

The comments under that DM article are ratcheting up.

All of them outraged and fuming.

For many it's the first time they've heard of 'chest feeding'. And it's having the expected effect.

LLL's reputation is fast becoming a joke - I hope they're aware.

MedusasBadHairDay · 29/11/2020 11:08

I remember the hassle I had when my DC were babies and lactose intolerant, we were warned against soya formula because of something to do with hormones in it? I couldn't breastfeed because I was taking particular prescription drugs, am I right in remembering that you are advised against certain over the counter painkillers too?

RealityNotEssentialism · 29/11/2020 11:04

This is the one:

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/princess-mom

It’s gross how many women are indulging this sick weirdo but the offering of your own baby so that some man can indulge a delusion that he’s female goes beyond the pale. Child abuse.

RealityNotEssentialism · 29/11/2020 10:56

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

So for every person this relates to there is a mum who has given birth and approves/is going along with this?
You wouldn’t believe some of the shit some women will come out with to appear woke and an ally. Do you remember that guy who was writing on Facebook about how he wants to simulate a pregnancy and was bitching because his estranged wife (whom he still lived with along with his kids) wouldn’t play along and let him ‘go into labour” in their house. He then started talking about breastfeeding and how he was so sad he’d never get to experience it and there were legit some handmaidens on there offering to let him ‘breastfeed’ their own babies. Apparently, ‘not a newborn but my 5-month old, sure’. These women should have their kids removed from them imo but I can definitely imagine some woke types being totally supportive of it.
OvaHere · 29/11/2020 10:55

Just read the Mail piece. It's not a bad article but I wish they'd made more about the implications for infant health and well being. The rights of a child not to used as an experimentation or a prop for someone's validity should be first and foremost here.

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 29/11/2020 10:52

So for every person this relates to there is a mum who has given birth and approves/is going along with this?