La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

utter awfulness of six months of hormone hell Fuck, I wish that was all it was!!!!

the poster was extremely sniffy that I wasn’t one bit kind about any of it. Tugging of heartstrings ensued.

Well you should just be kind shouldn't you 😉 Even if it was totally self inflicted and entirely preventable.

I hate to disappoint you, but menopause appropriation has happened on this very board.

The poster described the utter awfulness of six months of hormone hell that their doctor told them was them experiencing the menopause due to “too much oestrogen”.

I’m a very calm person generally, and don’t let these types get me het up, but that one... the poster was extremely sniffy that I wasn’t one bit kind about any of it. Tugging of heartstrings ensued.

Thank goodness. All the support groups and clinics would be chocka with Nora batty allies (for no one ever would channel Sophia Loren would they?)

Funny how these creeps don't fetishise menopause symptoms. Which only biological women get. And no, it's not an attack of the fucking vapours and "Janice from Friends" style waving at your face because you are a bit flushed.

No they don't want that because it's not womanly enough. I have seen some of them say that menopausal women aren't actually women anymore because they no longer have those feminine attributes. Go figure. It's a way of othering women in their own sex class in order to insert their own category of womxn into it. The arse end of Twitter for sure.

Otherwise any risk would be for the baby, if mum uses drugs or alcohol etc.

I mean I haven’t complied a risk assessment on breast feeding but I’d guess it’s low risk to the mum.

Funny how these creeps don't fetishise menopause symptoms. Which only biological women get. And no, it's not an attack of the fucking vapours and "Janice from Friends" style waving at your face because you are a bit flushed.

I can well imagine that breast milk gets fetishised by some transwomen doesn't it. The ultimate female thing, aside from periods. I still haven't forgotten got over the transwomen who dug through the tampon bin in a service station to find used tampons to wear in his womanly knickers.

I never managed to breastfeed and LL were spectacularly unhelpful. I phoned them and they said I would have to come to them and they were only available one night a month - it would have been an hour's journey on three buses, through the snow, with premature twins. I passed on that one! It's so infuriating as surely this is one area where not only do they have an excuse to be exclusive to females, they have a duty.

What's the 'risk element' involved in breast feeding?

because it gives women a feeling of absolute power over their babies

I am maniacly laughing at this!! Power over a baby? Well... i guess if you have one that is wonderfully placid like in the movies......

giving nourishment to your baby is about power? Weird goings on.

because it gives women a feeling of absolute power over their babies.”

Anyone who has bf would feel that the baby has the power over them...

That's interesting too many the 2019 report sounds like it's had a concerted effort in the writing to avoid certain words.

I read this a couple of weeks ago and noticed this quote from Joan Wolf, associate professor of women’s and gender studies at Texas A&M University and author of Is Breast Best?,

"Breast milk gets fetishised because of the risk element – because it’s natural, and because it gives women a feeling of absolute power over their babies.”

I've taken it out of context as she speaks about the social impacts of having to breastfeed in a negative way so I do recommend reading for the context.

I'd love for these companies who are trying to replicate human milk from cultures in mammary glands to test the men's milk and maybe use their 'mammary glands'...
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/nov/14/i-want-to-give-my-child-the-best-the-race-to-grow-human-breast-milk-in-a-lab?utmterm=Autofeed&CMP=fbbgu&utmmedium=Social&utmmsource=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1Dctg7qoF7szwNiE2dwx6HBRZXN3tGBS5ENuxbNiE8mQoOTUHsgPFy7KM#Echobox=1605485694

For what it is worth, I did a word count in the last few Annual Reports of the Canadian La Leche League. In 2015 the word "mother" appeared 15 times and reference to breast feeding 24 times. Compare this to the 2019 report where the word mother occurred 3 times, breast feeding 4 times and chest feeding 2 times. In the name of equity and inclusion, the word mother and breast is being erased. Lots of references to "parents" and at least one reference to the "breastfeeding couple." I assume they weren't referring to the two breasts. On a positive note, they still recommend "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding".

Do LLL realise they can just say no?

They really don't have to admit men, however they identify, whatever paperwork they have, anywhere near their organisation.

They can just say no. Any ensuing tantrums would not, even for a minute, undermine their position. Quite the opposite.

All males should have the right to bond with their children in any way they wish.

Oh my god. no! Just, please, no.

1. As a feminist board, any sentence starting with "All males should have the right to..." is a problem in itself.

1. Protecting babies from unsafe men is the crux of this thread.

Baroness Nicholson is onit.

twitter.com/baroness_nichol/status/1332987452496211970?s=21

There are some seriously odd people in the world.

Well, maybe not bonding which is appropriate in the parental/child relationship anyhow.

The experience of a male who has written about putting a baby to their nipple, has described himself as 'getting off' on it.

Good points, Mammoth. I should read up on this.

Rd infant mortality, it depends on when and who. It's not just feeding.

Many cultures allowed babies to die for many reasons. Eg early humans, the Romans, especially if female. The Egyptians were very pro babies though. Nutrition of the mother in pregnancy is also important. Babies these days are monitored carefully and we have more medical knowledge to help avoid common infections and other issues eg low vit k or hypothyroidism.

Various points in the past in the U.K. have been v bad for women and so bad for any babies, especially if birthed out of wedlock. Eg Victorian times when capitalism really got going.

The politics of bf is an interesting book.

I've also always found this article fascinating in terms of how a whole culture views and approaches bf. www.naturalchild.org/articles/guest/ruth_kamnitzer.html

Hospital convinced me DD was starving, and that it was 'very important to get her belly full' as she had been quite a difficult birth, had to have forceps, went on for ages, almost CC apparently as her heart was dropping, had to be on heat mat and slight jaundice. They got one of their cow and gate bottles, gave her it, and just continued, giving me them every now and again and standing staring

Was a month until I felt up to searching about it all and found out what they said was utter bollocks. But had missed my chance by then. She screamed at my breast, seemed terrified but that was prob as she could tell I was anxious looking back. Long story short, weeks of pumping, begging for appointments, domperidone, and 5oz per day total, I gave her one bottle of my milk a day, rest formula and hated myself and the hospital.

Luckily, with DS, birth was easy (besides massive bleed but that was in shower after) and he wriggled around when I was holding him and found my tit himself and latched perfectly. I was shocked at how easy, and MW helpfully commented 'its because he is male, they have a homing instinct when it comes to boobs'.

I don't get offended when people question the amounts of meds a male would need to produce fluid (I cannot call it milk). I kind of get why some women might find it upsetting though.

I do find it offensive that a male who want to 'breastfeed' would seemingly get more support than I got. Though that may just be spiteful of me..

I find it extremely offensive that LLL is spending ANY time on this nonsense, when they are supposed to be about what is best for the baby, not a males feelings and/or fetish.

It does make me wonder about the time before formula. Rich women could always turn to a wet nurse, but what did poor women do if the baby's mother was unable to feed her? No wonder infant mortality was so high, and what a godsend it is to know that if a mother can't feed the baby there are safe alternatives.

If you believe some of the more evangelical BF proponents, it was some sort of pre-lapsarian paradise where all women's breasts gushed with milk (and probably honey too).

In reality, I think the catch all "failure to thrive" on infant death certificates was often down to this - plus maybe relatives (sisters, mothers) wet nursing. Plus a lot of very early weaning. But a high infant mortality rate.

It's fascinating hearing people's different experiences of trying to get breastfeeding established in the early days. I'm so sorry for those who wanted to do it and didn't get the help they needed. I was incredibly lucky. I had an emergency c-section and dimly remember thinking in passing as I was wheeled to the operating theatre that this would probably mean I couldn't breastfeed. However, on my arrival in the post-natal ward in the early hours, the student midwife on duty said to me 'Your notes say you're keen to breastfeed, so let's get your baby latched on' and that was the start of several days of stellar support, first from the midwives on the ward (not all, but enough) and then from the community midwives. It still wasn't easy, but it worked out in the end. This was the early 1990s, btw.

It does make me wonder about the time before formula. Rich women could always turn to a wet nurse, but what did poor women do if the baby's mother was unable to feed her? No wonder infant mortality was so high, and what a godsend it is to know that if a mother can't feed the baby there are safe alternatives.