La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

Gender is a social construct.

Sex is a basic fact.

I'm not seeing any disharmony between the two?

I'm sorry that was how you were treated- my mum had the same. Baby whisked away was the norm.

See my earlier comments about breastfeeding being a complex divisive issue, earlier in the thread.

I have zero problems with a non binary female or trans man getting BF support after having a baby. Less than zero, if that's possible.

I do feel sympathy with this trans man who is a friend of my son as I know him. I still think it must be hell to do something so drastic. He is losing his hair which men accept as balding.

"Do women who have adopted a baby induce breast feeding? I have never heard about this."

I have heard of it. There was a Woman's hour interview with a woman who had done it.

And @MsSafina, what are your seventies memories of your own experience to do with the topic?

I don't need to think harder. You are now saying biology counts when before you said it doesn't.

@MsSafina.....this is not about transmen. Read the thread properly.

Transmen have breasts (sometimes). They are physiologically capable of breastfeeding however they identify. Of course they should be able to access bf support to do so happily and for as long as they want.

I don't have fond memories of breastfeeding. It was back in the day and the NHS were pushing powdered milk in bottles. Cow & Gate to be precise. Breast feeding mums on the ward were treated like shit. Bottle fed mums had their babies taken away and got a good night's rest. One of the bottle feeding Mums told me: I don't want to be like a cow and had the nurses full support. That's the seventies for you.

I think the LLL GB position is lamentable. They are falling in line with LLL USA whose language is ‘inclusive’ ie supports breastfeeding across all ‘genders’. There is nothing wrong, and everything right, with supporting mothers to breastfeed. Mothers = women. There is a physiological and psychological and emotional connection between a mother and her baby which breastfeeding enhances and supports. Adoptive mothers (or mothers who may not have breasts as a result of mastectomy) can reflect this, too, using whatever means to bring in a milk supply and doing the skin to skin stuff and whatever else they need to make the most of their wonderful female biology.

Trans identified people if they are without their own breasts cannot breastfeed. The case studies indicating they can are false. They are lies. This does not mean producing something liquid out of the nipple doesn’t happen. It may do. It is not human milk and it cannot be produced in any quantity sufficient to nurture a child.

People with a lactation kink or fetish already try to call on breastfeeding supporters to talk about it - the women who answer these calls should not ever be expected to put aside their own discomfort to satisfy these people’s needs to express a fetish. They should be permitted to have a boundary and curtail these requests.

These demands for bf support also happen online. We’ve seen it here - bogus calls for help with bf when there is not, and will never be, a baby. It also happens on FB. It happens on Reddit. Often, they’re spotted - sometimes they’re actually indulged by women who think they’re being kind. At least I think that’s what they’re feeling.

Opening up to people who are not mothers or expecting to be mothers brings up problems. Note: I am not talking about fathers who want to support their partners’ bf. It makes mothers feel uncomfortable. It diverts precious resources. It misuses and exploits goodwill.

I can envisage groups for pregnant and bf women being visited by someone who says a surrogate-born baby is on the way, and the plan is to breastfeed....please can I have the support of other mothers while I prepare with pumping/drugs and please validate me, aren’t I great? There may, of course, be no baby on the horizon at all. It’s just a fantasy.

The issue about giving the baby drugs will not be the issue for groups or non medical bf supporters (though it is a real concern), as they cannot be expected to advise on that.

But the issue of being used, undermined, made to feel very uncomfortable and even violated, and ruining things for genuine, would-be breastfeeding mothers is very real.

I dread to think other bf support organisations could be drawn into this shit.

We're responding to this statement shared by OP:

Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.*

Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history.

No, they need to answer the one about Transwomen. A baby being fed a liquid that may be full of testosterone suppressants and artificial female hormones has no established treatment history. Over and above the artificial medication to produce the liquid in the first place.

If not, why are they not cautioning against babies ingesting a liquid which contains;
(i) testosterone suppressants
(ii) artificial female hormones
(iii) on top of the drugs to induce the breast liquid in the first place?

If @LLL are cautioning against babies being given all that, then the nurturing of healthy babies may still be their mission and they may be doing all they can to protect babies against ingesting harmful substances.

What about "gender is a social construct?" Now you all realise that years of this feminist/post colonial/Marxist theory actually is a THREAT to you.

My son has a trans man friend. I feel a great deal of sympathy for what he's gone through transitioning from female to male. I imagine this publicity from the organisation is if a trans man gets pregnant.

The reason the vast vast vast majority of women breastfeed is because they have carried a baby, given birth, and the baby needs feeding and breast milk is good for them.

Your post really resonated Gerbil. I had countless bouts of mastitis, split nipples, dealt with babies dropping in weight, silent reflux and so many other sagas during my time breastfeeding. The ONLY thing that kept me going each time was the belief that what I was doing was the best thing for my child. I do not believe that any transwoman with a desire to breastfeed could possibly say that that was their motivation.

Thank you for that post, @CharlieParley.

That sounds lovely Curious

My breastfeeding days are long since finished, but I have fond memories of my local LLL group. A wonderful, women centred environment where I discovered a new (to me) kind of feminism rooted in celebration of the power of the female body to nurture and nourish a baby. If I recall correctly men were not allowed, I certainly don't remember any there. It was so empowering.

Sad times.

Is there nothing that is specific to women now? I'm sure the day will come when uterine transplants will be the next best thing

We still struggle to maintain pregnancies in women, the outcomes for the babies, where we keep women on ventilators for months, well its not usually that successful. We will never be accept to chemically create everything that our female bodies do. There are instincts and chemical reactions and sensory factors etc that just can't he replicated artificially kn a female body let alone a male body.

If ever there was Proof that men really do not see beyond one or 2 basic functions this is it. Breasts are not just lumps of flesh on our chest. Babies don't just grow in a uterus with nothing else going on...

Here you are Gardenbird.

www.aclu.org/blog/speakeasy/firing-mom-because-shes-breastfeeding-sex-discrimination

Interesting this is ACLU.

Would I be right in saying that LLL are supporting babies being fed something which may have artificial chemicals with effects unknown in it. And, something which has not even been assessed as to it's nutritional value in the first place?

That would be like the baby doesn't matter and is only incidental to the person who wants to go through the ritual of breastfeeding.

My sodding boobs started leaking at 6 months. I had no idea that could happen. We were on holiday and I woke up and thought oh what? I've pissed myself? But it's in the wrong place in the bed..

Cue me and DH for about 10 mins saying hmmm maybe it's dribble? We definitely didn't have sex... Before the penny dropped.

So breast pads from then And she didn't come till 42+2 and even then it was induced.... Sigh.

Women who have been through all this know stuff. Yes women can become mothers by other means but doing it the old fashioned way is a massively involved process, often uncomfortable, freaky, difficult etc etc

Men have ALWAYS minimised all of this. And oh look. Now they want to pick up the bits they fancy. Without the shit bits...

The point that most tw will presumably be getting a baby the old fashioned way- PIV with a female partner who has functional female breasts and has actually given birth etc. Is non trivial. Very much non trivial.

It's just like a sort of pick n mix of female experience really. While the women who produce the babies have, as with all the rest of our sex based stuff, little to no choice.

I can’t remember where I saw it recently but apparently in America a breast feeding woman brought a sex discrimination case against her employers and part of their defence cited that ‘as men can breastfeed too’ it wasn’t sex discrimination.

I’m not sure whether America has pregnancy/maternity as a pc which would presumably cover it in the uk and I’m not sure of the outcome (I’ll try and dig it out) but it could set a worrying precedent.

Yes, thank you Charlie

Charlie, very interesting post from you.