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Original poster

La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

493 replies

ExLLLeader · 27/11/2020 12:24

I picked this up on a recent Facebook post and could not quite believe it so made the following complaint/query and it is true. I was a La Leche League Leader for many years and am very upset to see how the organisation has lost its focus on the Mother and baby.

Complaint To The Board of Directors/Trustees

Dear Board members,

I was alarmed to see a post yesterday on the LLLGB Facebook page. The post in celebrating Transgender awareness week. The post links to the this page which states

LLLGB supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals. We do not discriminate based on sex, gender or gender identity.

And
Trans men, trans women and non-binary individuals may choose to breastfeed or chestfeed their babies.

And
Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.

I have two issues I wish to complain about and they relate to the idea that males/Transwomen can breastfeed.

LLLGB should not be promoting the idea that males can induce lactation to feed a baby. There is no evidence to say this is safe, only an anecdotal example of a case where a doctor in the US enabled this to happen using off label drugs. The focus of the paper is mainly on the desires of the male bodied person and there is little interest in the impact on the baby and indeed the mother. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241/ . I would hope you have also considered the fetishisation of breastfeeding which does not only apply to men watching women, males lactating is also a paraphilia.

Why would LLLGB of all organisations choose not to discriminate on the basis of sex as it is perfectly entitled to under the equalities act? By saying these two statements there is nothing to stop a male wishing to come to women only meetings. Even I presume, before the baby is born. Im not sure if you would require that the male considered themselves to be a woman by performing gender stereotypes or not. (The male in the study had no surgery so still had a functioning penis.) Does this entitle a male who has breastfed to apply for Leadership?

Yours Sincerely
(ExLLLeader)

--------

Dear (ExLLLeader)
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history. As lay breastfeeding counsellors, LLL Leaders role is to provide up to date and accurate information which individuals can use to inform their discussion with their healthcare provider.
Our groups have discretion to consider the needs of their communities when they decide who can attend. Some will by default be women only, however our support is and must always be open to anyone who needs support and information to breastfeed (which some individuals call chestfeeding). This would mean that a group would need to find a way to balance the needs of members who needed a single sex space, with the needs of an individual who needed chestfeeding support.
Eligibility for La Leche League Leadership is set by LLL International and can be found here: www.llli.org/get-involved/prerequisites/
As an organisation with a robust safeguarding culture, if we had concerns about an individual's motivation for seeking breastfeeding support we would take appropriate action to protect families and babies.
Best wishes (LLL Trustee)
-----
Dear (LLL Trustee)
Thank you for your reply, I have copied my complaint below as I was raising concerns about the male sex – i.e. Transwomen and breastfeeding and you have answered as if my concern is about female sexed i.e. trans men.

Best wishes (ExLLLeader)
_
Dear (ExLLLeader)
My apologies - I used the wrong word there. I should have said the protocol used by transwomen wishing to induce lactation is very similar to that used by women. The rest of my reply is intended to answer your points as raised.
(LLL Trustee)
___
Dear (LLL Trustee)
I am surprised to hear this. Would you therefor support a ‘Cis” man to breastfeed and provide the nutrients for a newborn baby?
-------
Not had an answer

OP posts:
MsSafina · 27/11/2020 20:51

I agree but your lot were saying "gender is a social construct" while my lot were saying we should nurture and look after our babies and stay at home while they're babies. No wonder that this lot are saying women are not necessary to look after babies. Indeed it appears to be true. You are all officially redundant.

NeurotrashWarrior · 27/11/2020 20:50

Dr Jack Newman used to have a section on his website about transwomen feeding. I don't know if it's still there though.

NeurotrashWarrior · 27/11/2020 20:48

and my partner's milk was going to take days to come in.

So narcissistic.

Preaching to the converted on this thread but obviously Colostrum is there pre birth and if baby had been allowed to suckle there would have been hourly and daily gradual increasing of milk till 6 weeks.

That's roughly when the breasts hit their max production. Too much messing with supplementation without pumping can reduce supply.

Those consultations were trying to do their job by the sounds of it. The fetish ruined that child's access to it's mother's milk.

SophocIestheFox · 27/11/2020 20:47

Cui bono is always the right question, hecates.

And the answer here is “definitely not nursing mothers and babies”, and that really should be as much as LLL need to know to say “well, what you need isn’t part of our core purpose, so we wish you well, but we won’t be able to help”.

HecatesCats · 27/11/2020 20:42

MsSafina we're not talking about toilets. Let's move on, shall we. Any attempt to suggest that transwomen should breastfeed babies born to women is contrary to La leche league's mission statement which is to promote breastfeeding for the ' 'healthy development of baby and mother', since there is no evidence whatsoever that chemically induced lactation in male born people is good for babies. It always comes back to this for me, who is benefiting from this change in approach?

Datun · 27/11/2020 20:35

Also 'lactation consultant'? Does this person mean the nurses???

'Uncooperative' nurses?

Every time I read it, it gets worse.

MsSafina · 27/11/2020 20:34

I accept the pain of people who have been born in the wrong body and want to transition - whether male or female. As I said, my son has a trans male as a friend. I do not accept that single sex spaces have to be made into unisex spaces. It doesn't make sense. Most women would not object to a transwoman coming into their space. But the logic is: all spaces must be made unisex to satisfy the normal 🤔

Datun · 27/11/2020 20:33

The lactation consultants in the hospital were uninformed and singularly uncooperative.

Uncooperative??

I think I've just answered my own question.

Datun · 27/11/2020 20:33

@BitMuch

www.thestranger.com/queer-issue-2017/2017/06/21/25225867/my-first-time-breastfeeding-my-daughter

"I met my wife two and a half years and 2,700 miles ago in Virginia. We raced from "let's keep this casual" to "let's get married, have kids, and move to Seattle" in about 10 months. At almost 40, we knew we couldn't wait too long (also, clearly, waiting wasn't our strong suit), so within a year of landing in Seattle, my wife was pregnant with our first child.

The baby didn't come on schedule, so we induced two days later, followed by a grueling three-day labor that ended in an emergency C-section.

. . . when they pulled my daughter free of my wife's body, I was the first one to hold her. I took her back to the hospital room and did what any mom would do —I put her on my bare chest and let her find my breast.

(And yeah, I kind of got off on it. Don't judge.)"

Moving quickly far from the wife's home is a very common tactic, seen often in Transwidow's stories. Then the escalating demands and abuse when she is most vulnerable. It's horrifying and should not be enabled by women's support groups.

The baby didn't come on schedule, so we induced two days later, followed by a grueling three-day labor that ended in an emergency C-section. By that point, I'd gone from producing an ounce of milk to only a cc or two, and my partner's milk was going to take days to come in. The lactation consultants in the hospital were uninformed and singularly uncooperative. We had to start supplementing with formula. A few weeks later, we both gave up on breastfeeding and switched to formula completely.

Eh? Induction, C-sections, all very common. So why when the 'sperm donor's' attempt to lactate failed, did they stop? There doesn't appear to be any specific reason, at all.

DaisiesandButtercups · 27/11/2020 20:25

@NiceGerbil

It's not about trans men.

It's about trans women. As per the quote from LLL.

no one here is bothered about trans men or non binary females going to a bf support thing after having a baby. They are female. From the POV of bf, which is the whole purpose of LLL, they are the same as all the others there.

Except if they expect a change of language and breastfeeding, mother, breast and woman are no longer permitted, that would be annoying.

Yes they are welcome if they have the humility to acknowledge that they are in a minority and not demand that the majority completely submit to their way of seeing the world. We can respect them without having to share their beliefs or apply their language to ourselves.

BitMuch · 27/11/2020 20:17

www.thestranger.com/queer-issue-2017/2017/06/21/25225867/my-first-time-breastfeeding-my-daughter

"I met my wife two and a half years and 2,700 miles ago in Virginia. We raced from "let's keep this casual" to "let's get married, have kids, and move to Seattle" in about 10 months. At almost 40, we knew we couldn't wait too long (also, clearly, waiting wasn't our strong suit), so within a year of landing in Seattle, my wife was pregnant with our first child.

The baby didn't come on schedule, so we induced two days later, followed by a grueling three-day labor that ended in an emergency C-section.

. . . when they pulled my daughter free of my wife's body, I was the first one to hold her. I took her back to the hospital room and did what any mom would do —I put her on my bare chest and let her find my breast.

(And yeah, I kind of got off on it. Don't judge.)"

Moving quickly far from the wife's home is a very common tactic, seen often in Transwidow's stories. Then the escalating demands and abuse when she is most vulnerable. It's horrifying and should not be enabled by women's support groups.

WhataFarce76 · 27/11/2020 20:16

@NiceGerbil

Also trans woman doesn't necessarily mean hormones surgery etc.

If a male person says they're a woman then they are from that point. TWAW. at that moment their breast tissue to transforms to be the exact same as a female with fully functional breasts.

I mean it's a miracle tbh.

Hallelujah! Didn't you know male people can literally become female? Its all over a popular video platform. Transwomen experience 'periods', monthly cycles, hot flushes, headaches, morning sickness (??) and cramping. Yeah, cramping, every month. Cramping in their .........erm...........your guess is as good as mine. It's like every stereotype has been read about and compressed into some fanciful idea of womanhood and what it is to be a woman. It must be a very strong desire indeed if it can produce such physical manifestations, even in a body organ that does not exist in a biological man.
Mylittlepony374 · 27/11/2020 20:14

Wow. I'm just horrified on so many levels but mainly because this is not at all focused on the baby; complete focus on the male adult.

HecatesCats · 27/11/2020 20:12

@MsSafina

I don't need to think harder. You are now saying biology counts when before you said it doesn't.
Nope. That's not what anyone has been saying. Biology is the root of women's sex based oppression, gender is a set of stereotypes imposed upon women and men. Think harder.
Winesalot · 27/11/2020 20:12

Males with surgically created breasts do not have female breasts.

Males on cross sex hormones do develop some breast changes without surgery. However, in an excellent post up thread, it has been pointed out that further changes to females breasts occur during pregnancy to facilitate breast feeding in a way to sustain an infant with nutrition.

NiceGerbil · 27/11/2020 20:10

It's not about trans men.

It's about trans women. As per the quote from LLL.

no one here is bothered about trans men or non binary females going to a bf support thing after having a baby. They are female. From the POV of bf, which is the whole purpose of LLL, they are the same as all the others there.

Cailleach1 · 27/11/2020 20:09

Just to say i contacted LLL about the medication I was going to have to take and what it may mean wrt breastfeeding. They seem to have medical people they can consult with/call on. I don't know if they are volunteers. It is a while ago. So, they came back to me later that it was not advisable.

However, I really think that if they have a policy of actively supporting transwomen in some expressing/feeding effort knowing that drug cocktails may be given to the baby) then @LLL would be complicit in anything the baby was exposed to.

Winesalot · 27/11/2020 20:08

Yes Frazzled13 that is correct.

NiceGerbil · 27/11/2020 20:07

Also trans woman doesn't necessarily mean hormones surgery etc.

If a male person says they're a woman then they are from that point. TWAW. at that moment their breast tissue to transforms to be the exact same as a female with fully functional breasts.

I mean it's a miracle tbh.

MsSafina · 27/11/2020 20:05

As far as I know he wants to be a man and is happy to be so. I've asked my son if his "Lady parts" are intact but he says he's never asked. As far as I can see, the trans men are no threat to us. The fact that trans women are attacked by men and therefore all female spaces have to be turned into unisex spaces so males have even more access to attack females is beyond belief. That's my opinion.

Frazzled13 · 27/11/2020 19:58

I’m sorry...can I just check?
This is trans women (ie biological males) taking drugs to create some sort of...discharge? That is then fed to a baby?
Have I got this right?

Delphinium20 · 27/11/2020 19:57

Trans women's breasts are anatomically pretty much identical to other women's breasts and have pretty much the same hormone levels.

This needs repeating: the above is a lie. It's a falsehood. It's fake news.

Males with surgically created breasts do not have female breasts. Trans woman cannot feed babies with their breasts. I'm sure many educators at La Leche know this, too...but for some reason they have chosen to be complicit in this lie.

OhHolyJesus · 27/11/2020 19:51

Also great posts upthread Charlie and tiktok.

OhHolyJesus · 27/11/2020 19:49

How old is this friend of your son's @MsSafina ?

Has this person any hopes for a biological family and has this person had a mastectomy?

NiceGerbil · 27/11/2020 19:49

If biology has never counted why did feminists fight for paid mat leave etc?