International day for the elimination of violence against women

How does not printing a letter, equate to advancing an agenda?

This is a lawyer, I think, saying this?

That if a newspaper doesn't print something, anything? That has been written somewhere in support of something. That not printing it, any of them, is the same as advancing the other view?

Seriously?

"privileged"

Gosh.

Is he saying that women who suffer sex based violence are privileged? And....what.... therefore deserving of it? Because some other groups (if you listen to bs made up statistics) have it worse?

I really hope I've misunderstood that tweet.

Even given the Guardian's track record, if JM is referring to that letter I'm not surprised because it's so factually incorrect it should never have been published anywhere.

Presumably this tweet is referring to the aforementioned letter and the Guardian's refusal to print it. No such qualms for the Independent.

Like many others I was unaware of so much until this year when I read about hundreds of rape and death threats aimed at an author who I held in high regard. Thinking she must have said some truly awful things I read her essay and I've been reading, researching and questioning ever since. I've read from a wide range of views and sources yet I can't escape the growing awareness of just how much women's views and voices are being silenced.

Instead of rambling on about the feminism journey I am on, I'd like to ask you oh wise feminist Oracle that you are - exactly how did the open letter printed yesterday improve the outcomes for women and girls? What contribution did it make to reducing sex-based violence?

I would really like to hear that group of signatories stand and defend that they are endorsing a political agenda that:

• believes in excluding from any public provisions including refuges and healthcare any females who cannot access mixed sex provision, in order to enable males to have full choice of all the provisions available: most of these females being vulnerable and disadvantaged females from marginalised groups.

• believes that it is more important that language makes less than 1% of the population feel included and safe than the female half of the UK population are easily able to find and understand essential medical provision made for females, where females most affected are vulnerable females from marginalised groups

• is currently and actively requesting political representation (basic civil rights) be stripped from women, and attempting to frustrate female people having recourse to the law to prevent questionable assaults on their legal rights

• has repeatedly involved actions to harass, threaten and have resorted to threats and actual violence in attempts to prevent women meeting peacefully to discuss current law in the name of this political lobby

• has over a period of years now involved widespread, daily extreme violent ideation including rape and death threats towards women, including themed clothing, art, actual direct personalised threats to individual women, and trivialising and normalising of violence towards women

If you don't speak out against it, you are part of it. These things are not necessary parts of care, respect and equality for trans people. These things are not acceptable regardless of what excuse anyone may feel they have. Either separate yourself from these parts and name them as wrong, (and yes, take the consequences because you'll quickly see the uncomfortable side of this lobby coming straight for you) or own that you believe in excluding, threatening and oppressing women.

At the very least Liv should be embarrassed for co-signing anything with Jameela Jamil. Almost as cringey as the content itself.

Yes, it is. And you wouldn't apply it to any other situation, would you?

"I identify as French - where's my French passport?"

I know quite a lot of people who were born in the UK to Irish parents who very much identify as Irish and would describe themselves as 'Irish' before describing themselves as 'British'. Most of them have Irish passports. What they cannot do though, is get their birth certificate changed so that it says they were born in Ireland. Because they weren't born in Ireland. As much as they might wish they had been born in Ireland, they weren't! To have 'Cork' on their birth certificate as their place of birth would be a lie, a falsehood, no matter how they identify.

And yet....

the right to define oneself and be believed with unconditional respect is meant only for some. Not for you. This is something you must give, but must not ever expect in return.

Spot on Michelle

Hmm yeah I guess theres not really a problem with describing mens rights activism as feminism. It only becomes an issue when said MRAs come here to tell off feminists for not focusing on what the MRAs think you should be focusing on.

And all women and girls.

I have to say my local council fb have been doing stirling work around raising awareness of this this week.

Sadly many men doing the whataboutery in comments.

the right to define oneself and be believed with unconditional respect is meant only for some. Not for you. This is something you must give, but must not ever expect in return. You will be who you are told to be for the convenience of others. And you may not protest this.

Yep. It's utter bollocks.

Then claim that 'their feminism' is different..

Really no problem with their feminism being 'different'. I've got no problem with anyone practicing what they like to term as a 'different' veganism by being inclusive of meat and all animal products, or a 'different' Conservatism by supporting Labour, or a 'different' form of homosexuality by being inclusive of heterosexual sex. Crack on, do whatever you like, I might not agree with your definition but if you leave me alone I will leave you alone. Live and let live.

It's when people come evangelising like missionaries intent on scolding the heathens that I may be forced to the discourtesy of pointing out some very obvious flaws in what they say.

This from the letter is just horseshit and refusing to accept that they are who they say they are.

Well said RoyalCorgie

The other way to immediately show the holes in this statement is to say unto someone telling you this:

Ok, I'm not a t**f

I'm not c*s

I am an adult human female who perceives sex as binary

I am a lesbian, by which I mean I am a female homosexual

And you'll very quickly have explained to you that the right to define oneself and be believed with unconditional respect is meant only for some. Not for you. This is something you must give, but must not ever expect in return. You will be who you are told to be for the convenience of others. And you may not protest this.

Problem is: I'm not a masochist. Or a doormat. So no. I don't engage in any values or social contracts to benefit at others at my own cost because why would I?

I will never understand people who plop post on here scolding us for caring about women, and not centreing other groups. Then claim that 'their feminism' is different..well sorry, if your feminism does NOT centre female people, its no form of feminism I recognise tbh. Equality for all would be humanitarianism (right word, looks wrong ) but the specific 'feminism' many of the ploppers seem to follow, appears to be mens rights activism, more than anything else tbh. Scolding feminists for not focussing on male people, its just beyond parody really.

Head pats from the penis people?

Yes. Another thread today talks about the campaign opposing women's suffrage, led by prominent women such as Mrs Humphrey Ward. (See also Phyllis Schlafly and her role opposing women's liberation in the US in the 1970s.) Plus ca change. There are large numbers of women who spend their lives courting male approval. They probably imagine it protects them from male violence or abuse, and differentiates them from the meanies campaigning for women's rights, whether that's the right to vote or the right to have single-sex spaces.

"honestly just don't get it. What are the likes of Rayner and Whittome actually getting out of making themselves look so bad, making it look like they literally just don't give a fuck about women? Why?! It's bizarre."
Head pats from the penis people?
Not being threatened with violent death and rape might be nice too.
Not excusing them at all.
Every stupid coward that signed that letter should be ashamed.

This from the letter is just horseshit and refusing to accept that they are who they say they are.

Yes, it is. And you wouldn't apply it to any other situation, would you?

"I identify as French - where's my French passport?"

"I identify as 16 - can I have half price on the buses, please?"

"I identify as 68 - where's my old age pension?"

"I identify as black - where's my student scholarship reserved for black people?"

"I identify as disabled - can I have a blue badge?"

It genuinely mystifies me that so many people can't see the very elementary logical flaw in accepting that people are who they say they are.

Owen Jones has now of course shared it too. I wonder if his sharing it the day after IDEVAW was deliberate or not...

Nadia Whittome has been massively ratioed on Twitter.

Angela Rayner finally retweeted a single tweet, but women are not worthy of a personal video from her.

I honestly just don't get it. What are the likes of Rayner and Whittome actually getting out of making themselves look so bad, making it look like they literally just don't give a fuck about women? Why?! It's bizarre.

So I guess that was just a drive by wokescolding from moon?

You can’t see my surprised face because I’m wearing a mask, but honest, it’s really, really surprised 😷

This from the letter is just horseshit and refusing to accept that they are who they say they are.

Why didn't anyone tell me that everyone is exactly who they say they are?? A Nigerian prince has been trying to give me money for the last few months, but I didn't believe he was who he said he was and now I've lost out on thousands, dammit!

*This come to lately feminist has learnt so much from here and only will ever centre girls and women

That is feminism*

Yes to this littl!

that letter makes me