Ooo, Jo Maugham isn't happy...

JCJ is just glorious when she's angry (how she maintains her sanity is beyond me).

I've said it a few times so apologies for going on, but JM's remainer campaigning enticed people to think he was a good guy, one of us, a leftie fighting the evil right wing brexiters. But he isn't a good guy, he is an opportunistic narcissistic grifter, and unpleasant with it.

One of the (very few) plus sides of his activities on trans issues is that the scales will fall from many people's eyes who thought he is something that he isn't.

The dumbest part of his strategy is he has come to it too late. He should have got on the bandwagon 2 years ago and milked it then. Now there is much more awareness of the dodginess around medicalising gender dysphoric kids, so when the shit hits the fan he can't plead ignorance. He climbed aboard this particular grift in full knowledge that serious and profound damage is being done to children through experimental treatments.

Ta for the link, Wines. Nothing like a bit of JCJ to cheer me up. I want to have her word-babies.

For those on twitter, here is the JCJ take down if you have not seen it. Well worth a read.

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1331138795207593984?s=12

The current insistence that gender dysphoria is not a requirement for transition and that wanting to transition is not a mental health issue sits awkwardly with all the suicide prevention arguments and statistics.

It's a plothole you could drive a truck through.

Totally at odds with the mainstream pro-trans position of twenty years ago too. Back then decent lefty liberal progressive types were insisting that people who'd had or sought this hormonal and surgical treatment should be supported because they'd acquired a very painful and difficult mental health issue that had become resistant to all other treatments.

We were expressly taught that transition was a medical treatment for a psychological disorder.

We could tie ourselves in knots wondering what the hell transition is for if there's no MH condition to treat. But personally I'd rather hold the proponents of the trans narrative accountable for the way they've utterly failed people with dysphoria.

Not everyone with dysphoria adopts a cross-sex identity in self-defence. Those who don't are cast as monstrous bigots who want "trans people" to die.

I don't want them to die. I want them to explain exactly where they get off on throwing dysphorics to the wolves. It's hypocritical - and on a demographic level it's creating sex-based oppression. We dysphorics must follow the male-centric narrative, or else we are the enemy who must be annihilated.

Our experience has not been that of affirmation but curiosity and questioning also a clear message a managing expectations that this process will take time and it’s not a box ticking exercise in order to get hormonal treatment

And yet you refer to your daughter as your son and being male?

Tier 3 services are only 'easy' to get in some areas - they are locally delivered as I'm sure you're aware. Our provision here is woeful. My child has been waiting on a Tier 3 service for over a year.

And I'm not sure I entirely buy the psychological support angle either. I suspect most children like Reece have already pretty much decided what intervention they are looking for from GIDS and psychological support is just a part of it.

I think I am right in saying that your child has not been formally assessed Fraida? And yet you seem to have decided a very clear pathway of treatment.

I wonder whether the wait actually entrenches views about the right way forward among children? Who are they talking to that is helping them make their minds up about medical treatments?

The current insistence that gender dysphoria is not a requirement for transition and that wanting to transition is not a mental health issue sits awkwardly with all the suicide prevention arguments and statistics.

It's not surprising that allies get themselves tied into cognitively dissonant tangles when they're having to claim one moment that it's perfectly normal and the next that it's a suicide-provoking emergency. What with that and having to revise everything they say on the hoof (don't mention born-in-the-wrong-body any more!) it must be exhausting for them. No wonder they get tetchy.

When I first started looking into this issue, my husband was totally confused and kept saying 'but this totally goes against your Liberal beliefs' and thought it was so strange that someone like me would be on 'the wrong side'! The more I have gone on and on about it discussed the issue with him, the more he gets it though.

I always go back to the Jack Applebee’s question: ‘What's more likely: That a load of life-long left-leaning LGBT-supporting women have inexplicably and uncharacteristically all suddenly become bigots or that one might be missing something here?’

YES!

Our experience has not been that of affirmation but curiosity and questioning also a clear message a managing expectations that this process will take time and it’s not a box ticking exercise in order to get hormonal treatment.

That’d be Jack Appleby. Damn autocorrect.

I always go back to the Jack Applebee’s question: ‘What's more likely: That a load of life-long left-leaning LGBT-supporting women have inexplicably and uncharacteristically all suddenly become bigots or that one might be missing something here?’

Bears repeating

I'm not sure if the Naomi Wolf's really believe us all to be a right wing cabal (personally, I'm really not and actually just a normal person) or if it's a tactic of if you keep saying it, other people will believe it.

I often wonder this. In Wolf's case, I think it's quite likely that her relationship with the truth is tenuous at best. It's not very long since her book on nineteenth century homosexuality was publicly shown to have a catastrophic error in it. Instead of showing some appropriate degree of shame, she has just bounced back, nuttier than ever. Who can forget her claim that, thanks to the lack of 5G, Belfast today was just as peaceful as it was in the 1970s?

I agree Fraida to quicker access to better mental health care is needed for our children and teens. It is a massive problem that there is a gap when GD is involved.

I also question though if you search specifically for a private clinician that specializes in GD, does that mean you end up with affirming only treatment vs a clinician who specializes in the wider health of children and teens who treats other issues as well?

however the option to challenge is open to anyone

This is quite obviously NOT the case. Will the Good Law Project fund them all? Who do you think will? The financial barrier is huge.

I always go back to the Jack Applebee’s question: ‘What's more likely: That a load of life-long left-leaning LGBT-supporting women have inexplicably and uncharacteristically all suddenly become bigots or that one might be missing something here?’

I find it ludicrous to think the LGB Alliance is funded by anyone except the individual supporters they state.

Whereas, the logic that a large big pharma backer for life long medical treatment... well that is just no surprise and is good business while people believe it to be in the beneficial interest of patience (and of course, channeling support into lobby groups to continue that message is an obvious move).

I am guessing that they are making such a fuss about funding to force LGB Alliance to publish their receipts - seeing a lot of demands for that.
They can then see who supported LGB Alliance and target them.

I'm not sure if the Naomi Wolf's really believe us all to be a right wing cabal (personally, I'm really not and actually just a normal person) or if it's a tactic of if you keep saying it, other people will believe it. Chuck enough mud and it sticks sort of thing.
The righteous left really think they represent all non right wing thinking. But this is a fundamental problem that Labour have in the UK, an inability to accommodate a range of opinion within the party.

@Fraida and @SophocIestheFox thank you.

Just addressing a few points on this thread: I don’t think anyone could or should argue that waiting lists for the NHS as a whole are not intolerable. No one should have to wait in pain or mental distress, however the option to challenge is open to anyone as in this particular case. Going private simply isn’t financially viable for many people and most people don’t have private health insurance. We are fortunate to be able to pay for private support in lieu of Tier 3 CAMHS services which are quite frankly not fit for purpose.

Bringing me on to my next point, GIDs is considered a specialist mental health service and thus a Tier 4 service the same as adolescent inpatient psychiatric units. The wait for the latter varies but can be up to three weeks which is also intolerable when you have a teen experiencing an acute mental health disorder. The point being here that CAMHs will not touch gender dysphoria in the community, instead will refer on to the Tavi. Thus what are parents supposed to do for their child who is suffering from conditions associated with the GD?! The only answer based on the structures above is timely access to GIDs to avoid worsening of the symptoms and to tackle the reasons that may lie behind the dysphoria. As many people have identified most kids work their way through this and come out the other side having decided not to transition.

Not providing a service that is fit for purpose runs the risk of people falling into the hands of organisations such as gender gp that work on a model of affirmation rather than assessment and will prescribe after one information gathering session. Even worse teens have been known to purchase hormones from overseas on line and self medicate.

Gender dysphoria is hideous and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, it’s awful watching your child in so much distress.

The bottom line for me is that we do need speedier access to GIDs so that children can be counselled, assessed and monitored and thus saving children from worsening associated mental health disorders.

Ultimately I want my child to be robustly and carefully supported psychologically, if over time a diagnosis of GD is made and precipitating factors discounted then yes I will support medical transition (which can’t happen under the NHS until the age of 16). Neither myself or my child, thankfully, want to go down the route of blockers.