Ooo, Jo Maugham isn't happy...

I have heard that it’s more than that, as other people have intimated: he has skin in the game

Table of staff numbers for GIDS from 2012 to 2019

(Lowest number of staff was Jan 2012 - 11
Highest number of staff was April and June 2019 - 112)

(GIDS is green bits only, blue is the London Adult GIC)

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/594583/response/1438621/attach/html/4/SPREADSHEET%2019%2020154%20The%20Number%20of%20People%20Working%20at%20GIC%20GIDS%202012%2019.xlsx.html

The question was ‘ How many people worked at the Charing cross GIC and gender identity
development service in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019?’

So I presume the headcount includes admin staff?

More recent FOI asking for numbers of resignations and reasons for leaving:

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/staff_resignations#outgoing-994099

This one doesn’t include admin staff, as far as I can tell?

There is a FOI somewhere showing how many clinicians have joined and left each year. I’ll go find it.

Sorry, that was in response to Clymene.

Where does he think they'll get the clinicians from to start with. As you say, it's become a scary specialism to have, and many just do not want to get involved.

I'm not sure where Maugham thinks they're going to magic it up from though - it's entirely unrealistic to expect GIDS to ramp up its service to meet an increase in demand of 10,000 in 3 years.

Well they could always improve efficiency by halving the appointment times, and the number of appointments and outsource prescribing to GPS....

(For avoidance of doubt that comment comes with a sarcasm alert.)

I suspect the fact that the 'gender affirmative' guidance from BPS puts very many psychologists off providing support to those young people who struggle with gender identity. See letter here.

thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-33/october-2020/freedom-expression-around-diversity-guidelines

Parents and children are therefore stuck between a rock and a hard place and have to wait for GIDS.

I can't imagine how hard it is to be waiting for support.

I'm not sure where Maugham thinks they're going to magic it up from though - it's entirely unrealistic to expect GIDS to ramp up its service to meet an increase in demand of 10,000 in 3 years.

Bar those pushing the utterly weird idea that GD is not a mental health condition and therefore needs no treatment

Generally while simultaneously claiming that the waiting lists for treatment are too long (agreed, for all conditions though, not just this) and that delaying treatment could cause suicide

The JCJ thread is brilliant. She made absolute mincemeat of him. (I'm assuming he's blocked her so won't read it.)

I just wish JCJ was a barrister than a philosopher. She would be dynamite in a courtroom.

Maybe they are banking on few people getting genital surgery as there are so few surgeons actually doing it and most are largely busy with their NHS contracts (or getting close to retirement)?

A private phalloplasty with the sole surgical team performing them reportedly costs £90,000 (3 stage operation).

To be fair many of us are. Proceeding with caution is definitely my MO for my gender questioning child. It’s a myth that all parents of children with possible gender dysphoria are desperate to get to GIDs so we can shove hormones into them. Many of us just want the psychological support

Sorry you are going through this, and yes it does need to be clearer than parents are not all waning to shove blockers down their kids throats like smarties and such. Thats the picture given by the likes of mermaids, yeah, but its not the general respose, or I would really doubt it is. I hope you manage to access some psychological support soon. Psychological support seems thin on the ground around this topic unfortunately, as it becomes more and more pushed that 'therapy fr trans kids is conversion therapy so it is Very Bad'. NHS appear to be starting to actually make sense on the topic a bit, now that they have stopped the outright lies about blockers being totally safe and reversible, hopefully, the rest will follow and we will see some sense soon. I do not think its fair to make out parents are all thrilled and pushing fo transition asap. I think many of those who are 'happy' have been kind of guilted into it, by groups such as mermaids as they have been told their child will kill themselves if not instantly affirmed, and such. I find it fucking vile tbh, that such 'support groups' behave in that way, and also, anecdotally, appear to actually totally drop parents who refuse to go down the medicalisation pathway.

One of my close friends went through hell with a gender questioning child. Child had never shown any discomfort with her body before. Started watching a load of FtM youtube stuff, and reading reddit and stuff. And bang, We know the rest. Luckily my friend declined the schools reccomendation to contact mermaids (as she was quite knowledgable on the topic) and while she was fine using 'new name', that was about all she did differently. Binders and such were not allowed, she talked to her daughter about the harms binders ca cause, daughter was under the impression they were also safe, and even if they weren't it didn't matter that much as once she was old enough she could get that part of herself removed anyway Was all very very sad, and sudden. Luckily, she is happy in herself now. She is also now openly lesbian. Which is, I think, behind a hell of a lot of these sudden 'I am a transman' events. Could have been really bad though, if she had gone to mermaids and fell for all the manipulation. Schools really really need to stop recommending that group. The main problem she found, was apparently trying to find a therapist who did NOT reccomend social transition immediately and that. Who was not angling for 'affirmation'. She found one eventually, but apparently its 'best practise' to not even bother talking a bout possible other causes for discomfort with 'gender', which is fucking terrifying.

Went off on a tangent a bit there. But yes, I definitely disagree with the assumption some seem to make that parents are all thrilled and waing appointments for drygs and that. I imagine many are reluctant but want to support their child through it (like my fiend), some wll be unsure, and end up in the cluthces of mermaids, and only a minority will be instantly thrilled, affirmation and loads of fuss made, followed by binders, drugs, etc. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to be in that situation, especially if you are brand new to the topic and do not know about mermaids, and believe the stuff they say. I canot imagine the terror of being told (by a group recommended by many professionals too, so has an air of authority) my child will kill themselves if I do not put them on a medical pathway immedately. The stress and pain my friend, and her child went through because of this all is just heartbreaking, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. So no, the painting of parents as hugely enthusiastic is not exactly accurate IMO. Some will be, but I suspect thats a minority.

Its just stupid too. Try it on any other topic.

'Pedos will attack children anyway. They don't need to pose as teachers and school staff. Might aswell do away with CRB checks because they are pointless, its easy to access children anyway if someone is determined, why would they bother taking time to apply for a job in a school, really? Anyway, most people are not bad people, its awful to mark them as predators and make them prove they aren't, instead of just taking their word for it then acting if they do something wrong, the police can always be called if there is a problem'.

Its just such nonsense.

(I am NOT calling trans people pedos with the above post. Infact, the ped analogy is not about trans people at all, but the arguments used against making women safer. That should be clear, but probably isn't to the monitors. Sure it is to the mods, but putting this anyway just incase)

I have removed a fair few of these men now as they are just..anoying and relentless when I talk about womens rights, but I had a fair few middle class straight (usually, a couple were gay, but the rest of the descriprs were always there!) white male friends who jumped on the trans bandwagon and basically used/use it as a way to be outright misogynistic but dress it up as progressive and blast anyone who argued as 'bigots'. The pure hatred they show for female people is astonding, and they kept it relatively well hidden previously, besides the odd attempt at 'but women do it too' whinges and such, that they usually quietly dropped when they were pulled up. They seem very very happy with this 'moverment'. Finally, they can scold women to their hearts content, make men out to be the victims, and they cannot even be told not to as anyone who does that is against 'trans rights' and is clearly a bigot! Amazing, how well that came together for such men. Happy they found a cause to enthusiastically support after all these years. Good to see they are now progressive, instead of only caring about 'mens rights'. They now very much care about a totally unrelated group, amazing! Just a coincidence, of course, that 'supporting' that group means you can outright abuse feminists, and women who disagree. Also their 'support' does not ever seem to go beyond scolding women on social media and such, they don't appear to actually try to help (or listen to) the group they are now so worried about in anyway, besides telling women to 'shut up terf'.

Private insurance doesn’t usually cover gender related stuff anyway

Very much starting to now. My insurers, Aviva, made a big song and dance last year about their newly minted coverage for all aspects of transition related healthcare.

This was in the same week as they told me that they don’t cover anything related to menopause as it’s “not a medical issue”

Let’s just say I was...struck by the contrast. Very struck.

@SophocIestheFox agree. Re the grift - it is JM and other adult hangers on I believe are grifters, not the children. Goodness not the children. They deserve all the proper support they can get, but the funnel JM et al are putting them into runs a high risk of them being spat out sterile, with cognitive limitations and lifelong medical problems.

Going private simply isn’t financially viable for many people and most people don’t have private health insurance

Private insurance doesn’t usually cover gender related stuff anyway.

There is only one private gender service for minors in this country and that’s the on the side private practice of a GIDS clinician.

‘Tier 3’ maybe more accessible if you are talking private practice but it’s the same 3 year wait as GIDS. The only thing that makes it easier to access is geography (provided by multiple trusts) whereas GIDS has only two physical locations (and some satellites) because it’s a nationally commissioned service for England and Wales.

Normally you can only access tier 4 after accessing tier 3 and being referred onwards or via A&E crisis admission.
I think this will be the outcome of this kind of court action, GIDS already prefer referrals to come from CAMHS, and if they make that the rule then the waiting list will shrink considerably.

Kids will still be waiting just as long before they are actually seen, of course, but it will all be one wait so there will be no ‘anti trans discrimination’.

Simply referring to private practice or abroad will not work, as a) there is only one part time private clinician to refer to and b) gender services in Europe are just as overloaded anyway (and US services are not equivalent).

I know quite a few kids who have been abroad for NHS funded cancer treatment (Texas at first, until the treatment became available in Germany) but it was clearly evidenced treatment and a stop gap until the NHS got it’s first proton beam therapy centre (now open at The Christie in Manchester).

Kids would need to be diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria BEFORE being being sent anywhere else for treatment, just like we only sent kids who were already diagnosed with certain types of cancer to Germany.

The wait for GIDS is for diagnosis, not treatment (GIDS refers onto two nearby endocrinology teams, so the wait for that bit will be with other kids also waiting for endocrinologist care but isn’t nearly as long).

If trans becomes completely de pathologised, as many activists argue for, there will be no justification for including it under a socialised medical system anyway.

Possibly the best cure for what seems to be a largely iatrogenic condition anyway?

(according to the new Swedish figures).

genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/

Anorexia is much easier to get treatment for - as it is treated by a tier 3 camhs service.

It may well be a tier 3 service, but it’s certainly not much easier. You may get an initial appointment quickly, but you’ll be offered group CBT therapy. You won’t get the intensive specialised therapy needed.

I don't think this is grift, fwiw. I think it's deeply held desperation.

I think the fact that our poor children are in sore need of more effective mental health support is the one issue that almost everyone can agree on. (Bar those pushing the utterly weird idea that GD is not a mental health condition and therefore needs no treatment).

What is driving this deep-seated unhappiness? Where is it coming from? How can we best help? It breaks my heart that so many children are so unhappy and struggling. Let's hope Sunak's new measures for mental health include some decent financial support to enable children to get quicker intervention and far more solid provision. It's absolutely gutting when so many people are encouraged to 'get help' or 'see your GP', when we all know very well that doing so very often leads to a brick wall. (or a cliff edge, depending how you want to frame it).

We should do better.

Off to read the JCJ, now, thanks.

[quote Winesalot]For those on twitter, here is the JCJ take down if you have not seen it. Well worth a read.

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1331138795207593984?s=12[/quote]
She is magnificent

The dumbest part of his strategy is he has come to it too late. He should have got on the bandwagon 2 years ago and milked it then. Now there is much more awareness of the dodginess around medicalising gender dysphoric kids, so when the shit hits the fan he can't plead ignorance. He climbed aboard this particular grift in full knowledge that serious and profound damage is being done to children through experimental treatments.

YY. This isn't popular with the public, and this action will only highlight it further.

Not formally assessed you are correct but going through the psychological support and assessment at the moment. I know what the final options ie. medical transition but we are no where near there yet. I’ve read the NHS GD pathway so am aware of what the process and milestones are.

I agree that there are probably many people that see medical transition as the only solution hence the success of the aforementioned GenderGP but certainly for us we recognise the need for proper exploratory therapy in the first instance. We are not proponents for puberty blockers as there are risks involved, would never assume that any form of medication is benign.