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Original poster

Breastfeeding support group wants to allow males

306 replies

user643899 · 22/11/2020 20:03

I am in a Facebook group for breastfeeding support.

There's a new comment from admin asking if we'd be comfortable with males joining the group, then a subsequent poll.

I commented on said poll, "I am a feminist. Call me a terf. Biologically you are male or female. Feel free to identify as what you wish but you cannot change your sex. This group is for breastfeeding. Only females can breastfeed."

I was called a bigot. One comment read, "you aren't a feminist. Feminists want equality for all genders." I responded,"Equality for both sexes, yes. Female is a sex. Feminism derives from the word, female."

Now my original comment has been deleted. I daren't comment again through fear of removal.

I'm upset. This is the group I used when I had thrush. I posted pictures of the thrush on my boob. I can't be comfortable in a group made for my sex.

OP posts:
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Duckwit · 22/11/2020 22:28

I did mean males. Transwomen are male.

And transmen are female. So if they were talking about allowing transwomen and transmen then they weren't just talking about males were they?

People were clearly confused by what you said at the start of this thread as we all assumed you meant allowing fathers into the group, because you hadn't mentioned transgender at all?

Anyway, I agree with you - transwomen should not be allowed into an online breastfeeding support group. Transmen are female and should be allowed into the group (IMO)

HotGlueGun · 22/11/2020 22:25

@Duckwit but is it the most appropriate place for a transman to get support? If their presence as male-looking people unsettles the women in the group, is this ok? How would they know that they are actually female?

Why are you so invested in this particular point? Are you a breastfeeding mother? A chest feeding transman? Come on, show your hand...

Original poster
user643899 · 22/11/2020 22:19

Well that is a good question, I don't know! But if they have given birth and are breastfeeding a child as a female, then I don't see why they can't access support like any other female? The only thing I would object to is if they insisted that everyone used 'chestfeeding', 'birthing bodies' etc.
Who said they can't access support?

I have read the whole thread and have seen your clarification but your first few posts were quite confusing and I don't really understand why you said 'males' in your title and OP when that's not what you meant?
I did mean males. Transwomen are male.
You understand what I mean so I won't continue a debate on this.
The thread is about another safe space being taken away.

OP posts:
Duckwit · 22/11/2020 22:16

@user643899

Presumably for the same reason they wanted to give birth and breastfeed a baby at all?

And what reason is that?

Well that is a good question, I don't know! But if they have given birth and are breastfeeding a child as a female, then I don't see why they can't access support like any other female? The only thing I would object to is if they insisted that everyone used 'chestfeeding', 'birthing bodies' etc.

I have read the whole thread and have seen your clarification but your first few posts were quite confusing and I don't really understand why you said 'males' in your title and OP when that's not what you meant?

Doublebubblebubble · 22/11/2020 22:12

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Im as feminist as you can be and as anti terf as you can be

No, you aren't. If you have any issue with this, that puts you soundly in the "terf" category to most TRAs. I'm not sure what you imagine gender critical feminists believe?

Did you actually read what I wrote?

I'm asking where it ends? I absolutely am anti-terf. I want equality for everyone so that puts me firmly in the feminist category. Ill fight for peoples rights to be free and make themselves happy. I wouldnt ever deny someone be who they want to be. I have 2 trans members (my closest cousin is transitioning) of family who wouldnt dare think that just because they are m2f that they could join an ovarian cancer group or a breastfeeding group. They are women but they understand that biology will lean a certain way for them.

Denying actual biology is lunacy.

Original poster
user643899 · 22/11/2020 22:12

Presumably for the same reason they wanted to give birth and breastfeed a baby at all?

And what reason is that?

OP posts:
Original poster
user643899 · 22/11/2020 22:11

@Duckwit

It was not about males in general as it specifically mentioned transmen and transwomen.

So why did both your thread title and your OP specifically only say 'males'? You didn't mention transmen/transwomen at all?

Rtft
OP posts:
Duckwit · 22/11/2020 22:08

It was not about males in general as it specifically mentioned transmen and transwomen.

So why did both your thread title and your OP specifically only say 'males'? You didn't mention transmen/transwomen at all?

Duckwit · 22/11/2020 22:05

[quote HotGlueGun]@Duckwit actually that's not true. It IS possible for a transman to have chest surgery and still breastfeed. Yes they are biologically women but they present as MALE. Why would they want to be there? [/quote]
Presumably for the same reason they wanted to give birth and breastfeed a baby at all?

Original poster
user643899 · 22/11/2020 22:02

@Backbee

Your title is literally 'wants to allow males'. Transmen are not male, so your thread should have been wants to allow trans people.
I then clarified it quite a few times.

I suggest you rtft

OP posts:
Backbee · 22/11/2020 21:58

Your title is literally 'wants to allow males'. Transmen are not male, so your thread should have been wants to allow trans people.

Original poster
user643899 · 22/11/2020 21:53

So far we've had MtFs joining PCOS support forums and telling women there to use inclusive language.

What a sick joke this would is becoming.

OP posts:
Original poster
user643899 · 22/11/2020 21:52

@Backbee

I align with the biological reality that transmen are women and transwomen are men. I still don't get OPs point and why they are specifically being brought into it, when the actual issue is surely around men joining, rather than TM (women) joining, or TW, who would fall under that bracket of men joining anyway.
I think you're purposefully being obtuse.

I have said numerous times, the question was about transmen and transwomen joining a breastfeeding support group.
It was not about males in general as it specifically mentioned transmen and transwomen.

OP posts:
PotholeParadies · 22/11/2020 21:52

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Backbee · 22/11/2020 21:50

I align with the biological reality that transmen are women and transwomen are men. I still don't get OPs point and why they are specifically being brought into it, when the actual issue is surely around men joining, rather than TM (women) joining, or TW, who would fall under that bracket of men joining anyway.

Cailleach1 · 22/11/2020 21:49

What is in it for the women in the group? How does it enrich the support for the women in the group?

The presence of random males who seem to have no reason to be there just seems to be plain voyeurism if it it has no relevant purpose for the group or for people who join to gain breastfeeding support.

frolicmum · 22/11/2020 21:49

@OP @HotGlueGun @Coffeeandcocopops

I was clearly so frazzled because my husband just said he was never there. He said he dropped me off as I wasn't allowed to drive due to my cesarean, he confirmed they explained it at the hospital and when the midwife came to our house, so he never set foot in the breastfeeding clinic.

I personally wouldn't mind, but you are right, it can make other women feel uncomfortable and that's the last thing I would want when breastfeeding at the early stages is stressful enough as it is.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/11/2020 21:47

It rather depends on what side you fall when it comes to gender ideology, Backbee. Because that determines whether it's MTF or FTM trans people you view as female.

Original poster
user643899 · 22/11/2020 21:47

@Backbee

Well yes OP, but then your argument is about men joining full stop, rather than bringing transmen and transwomen into it, no?
No, that isn't my argument as that wasn't the question asked.

The question was regarding transmen/ transwomen joining a breastfeeding group, which I've pointed out quite a few times.

OP posts:
Backbee · 22/11/2020 21:44

Well yes OP, but then your argument is about men joining full stop, rather than bringing transmen and transwomen into it, no?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/11/2020 21:43

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user643899 · 22/11/2020 21:42

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Original poster
user643899 · 22/11/2020 21:40

@Backbee

But how did they confirm they were female? Anyone can set up any Facebook profile, add random people and seem like a genuine account. It's a risk you take on social media sadly, anything you share can be seen by people you don't know, and shared anywhere, a women's only group doesn't guarantee anything. I know that's very cynical and support groups are invaluable, but fundamentally if anyone got their kicks previously they could have done- the kicker is if women are dismissed, their voices dimmed and language criticized by new people joining. I can't imagine there's going to be a huge influx mind.
I'm not sure how. I'm not part of the admin team.

The argument that anyone could be male isn't cutting it.
As long as the group has a firm stance on being a female-only group there would be no issue.
If males are pretending to be females to join breastfeeding groups then that's a huge reason why they shouldn't be allowed in the first place.

OP posts:
HotGlueGun · 22/11/2020 21:38

@Duckwit actually that's not true. It IS possible for a transman to have chest surgery and still breastfeed. Yes they are biologically women but they present as MALE. Why would they want to be there?

Doublebubblebubble · 22/11/2020 21:37

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