Teenager drop-kicked for saying you need female genitals to be a woman

As well as the victim blaming, did anyone else notice how the judge went on from this?

The four of you then were subjected to extremely offensive transphobic and racial abuse. Had it not been for that there would have been no violent disorder.

However that does not excuse what you did, you went far to far in your reactions, but of course transphobic issues are particularly sensitive. [my italics]

There we have it. Transphobia is worse than racism. Worse than anything else in the whole wide world. There is no crime greater than that of transphobia. (And of course no clear definition of what transphobia is.)

In the context of the profile of BLM this year, that really is a strong statement.

There's never an excuse for victim blaming. We don't do retributive justice. We don't bend the law because 'he deserved it'. We know too well where that kind of justice leads.

Hi @LangClegsInSpace

Victim blaming has long been part of our justice system, as indeed has retribution. Rightly or wrongly provocation is a mitigating factor in the sentencing process, so yes, the law does get bent according to the behaviour of the victim.

(I'm not too sure what this discussion is doing on a board about feminism either, by the way, but some women convicted of DV offences benefit in the sentencing process from victim blaming, and the provocation principle.)

I've also been pondering what would happen if the precipitating remark had been different.

What would happen to 4 black guys who did this in response to a white teen racially abusing them? Or to 4 Asian men? Or 4 white men who beat up an Asian teenager for looking at them.the wrong way?

I think we'd be a lot clearer on how it wasn't 50/50 then.

The judge's comments were unconscionable and inexcusable.

It also begs the question of whether this crime will be recorded in statistics as having been committed by females. The scenario of a gang of women perpetrating a violent attack probably isn't unprecedented, but I would assume this to be rare. The implication seems to be that transgender women perpetrate violent crime at the same rate as that of other natal men, i.e. far outweighing violent crime committed by women. To suggest otherwise is to skew statistics and potentially create further safety issues for everyone else.

Also for AvocadoBathroom.

This is from the Metro. I'm curious about what that prior conversation was about

Me also.

And what if that had been a teenage girl being beaten up by this group of Male bodied thugs?

If a teenage girl got beaten up for saying you need a fanny to be a woman, even without insulting her attackers she'd be crucified - "this cishet oppressor deserves everything she gets" - which if you squint a bit looks a lot like beating a girl up for the crime of being a girl (and knowing it).

In the case of this incident, the victim was essentially assaulted for the crime of "being provocatively cissexual in public".

Always important to remember the appropriate comparator, though. What would happen if four transmen beat up a teenage girl for saying you need a dick to be a man? How would the courts view that, and how would the sentencing compare? I'd lay money they wouldn't just be looking at a slap on the wrists.

There was a thread on here, and I would say it was about 50/50 blame

What the fuck is wrong with people

Honestly, does anyone know

Especially on mumsnet....basic fucking parenting is that the ‘he started it’ defence isn’t a fucking defence

avocado

So sorry about your dad 💐

And you! Having people yell abuse at you is dreadful

Avocado .

And what if that had been a teenage girl being beaten up by this group of Male bodied thugs?

I've seen that dismissed as well as she was a "bully". I think that also involved kicking her in the head. An individual MTF trans person rather than a gang. There was a thread on here, and I would say it was about 50/50 blame.

AvocadoBathroom

I'm so very sorry for what happened to you, and your father.

"She said: ‘Hannah Bryan, when she was interviewed described that there had been a conversation with this young man where he had turned around and said “You’re not a woman – you need a fanny to be a woman”.

This is from the Metro. I'm curious about what that prior conversation was about.

AvocadoBathroom

There's never an excuse for victim blaming. We don't do retributive justice. We don't bend the law because 'he deserved it'. We know too well where that kind of justice leads.

That appears to me as roughly what just happened in the court though. It appears to me that the judge just blamed the victim and intimated there was an excuse for stomping on someone's head. So, British courts now seem to do that in certain cases. However, I'm sure it will be applied in the same way if a group of women were called b*hes or c**ts and retaliate with male pattern violence and stomped on the name callers head while they were lying prone on the ground.

Proportionate or excusable in any way? Stomping on someone's head while they're on the ground could have resulted in brain damage or death. If the man on the ground had died from the physical attack, would he have been called the alleged murder victim?

Something it did make me think though is that when men start to get affected by these issues they will start to sit up and that's when the backlash will suddenly happen. What happens when young men start being targeted and beaten up by TRA's?

And what if that had been a teenage girl being beaten up by this group of Male bodied thugs?

From a DM commenter: “Well they can't blame their appalling behaviour on the time of month...”

Oops posted before I finished -
Was about to say "So think carefully about what you are justifying here. We have no idea what happened, we only have a version that doesn't tell us what the lead up to these remarks were even. Pretty sure if I was getting beaten up I would be shouting every insult I could manage and a few extra.

This is a disgraceful way to behave and shows that thuggishness and violence are all too easy to dismiss as long as you shout "be kind" whilst you kick a mans head in.
So

There's never an excuse for victim blaming. We don't do retributive justice. We don't bend the law because 'he deserved it'. We know too well where that kind of justice leads.

This was a brutal attack. Four people, three of them fully grown males, set upon a 19 year old, knocked him to the ground and repeatedly kicked and stamped on him.

I don't care what he said, how offensive it was or who it was offensive to. Anyone trying to justify or downplay vicious attacks like this should have a long hard look at themselves.

Didn't that article day he the victim was treated for a black eye and abrasions? I dislike the way the judge summed it up, but I'd be amazed if there was a real sentence handed out for those injuries, a witness who didn't want to give a statement and provocation of some kind.

If other people hadn't intervened, they could have gone on until they killed him.

Verbal abuse does not excuse four viciously assaulting and drop kicking one man. It's staggering and yes, frightening, that the judge has effectively given the assailants carte blanche to attack anyone saying something they find offensive.

Also, and not directed at OP: This really has no business being in the feminist section, ffs. Street brawling is not our department- we have so much to be doing, so many things to still address. Maternity care, FGM, DV, politics, healthcare, sexism. Women have so much to do already just to get through the fucking day . And yet this is rudely shoved into our faces as 'female crime' . What bullshit.

The posters on here with the "He said something nasty so they should get away with it" attitude need to take a long, hard look at themselves. People should not get away with a four on one assault.

This. Was about to say exactly the same. Ask yourself why they did get away with it.

Men exhibiting male violence. Nothing unusual to see here.