Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

non-men

36 replies

peppermintteadrinker · 21/11/2020 08:24

I'm a regular reader in here but don't usually post in FC. But just read a tweet by someone involved in my industry to do with diversity in which he refers to non-men. So sick of this shit.

I run a work based account and therefore I can't challenge or unfollow. In principle I want to support this group this man represents to do with racial diversity in the industry but fgs. Non men is just offensive.

Why have we ended up in this minefield that means supporting one under represented group means by default we have to tie it to other groups and all that bloody mess?

I am perfectly happy to support anyone in a minority and firmly believe we should all be treated with respect and dignity but not like this. Why should saying the word woman be so hard and now a political statement?

OP posts:
StanfordPines · 21/11/2020 08:59

*male is the default

firedragon101 · 21/11/2020 08:58

Shouldn't it be non men and non women though? I think it's fine to have non men providing you have non women too...! It's all such a load of codswallop isn't it?

Aesopfable · 21/11/2020 08:58

Does his group refer to non-whites too?

StanfordPines · 21/11/2020 08:58

I kind of see where this is coming from. A company is wanting to ensure diversity from the standard white man. So by saying you want more applications from non white people you are looking towards black/Asian/Chinese/mixed race etc. Non white covers a whole host of people.

They have then just applied the same logic to the man part of the problem. Non white and non man. Sadly they haven’t thought this through for more than one minute and realised that if they want transmen to apply then saying non man is very off putting to them. It also reaffirms the idea that make the the default, the correct way to be, and that everything else is simply faulty kind of man.

Aesopfable · 21/11/2020 08:56

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

Non men = all not male humans over the age of 16 then?
And all children of both sexes
ThatIsNotMyUsername · 21/11/2020 08:52

[quote peppermintteadrinker]@ThatIsNotMyUsername which is... women? Surely if trans women are women then... it's just women? How is women not inclusive? Who else are we missing if we say women and not non-men? Some people who perhaps identify as neither sex/gender? Why can't we say women and non binary? Non-men is just awful. Are men non-women?[/quote]
Hush now silly... we don’t get to make these Bug Decisions now do we.

Now I must get back to knitting fluffy kittens and making throw cushion jam...

GCAcademic · 21/11/2020 08:47

I can’t imagine that transwomen want to be described as non-men either. It’s just offensive all around. Defining people by what they are not is inherently othering and implies a deviation from a norm or superior entity.

Original poster
peppermintteadrinker · 21/11/2020 08:42

@ThatIsNotMyUsername which is... women? Surely if trans women are women then... it's just women? How is women not inclusive? Who else are we missing if we say women and not non-men? Some people who perhaps identify as neither sex/gender? Why can't we say women and non binary? Non-men is just awful. Are men non-women?

OP posts:
SophocIestheFox · 21/11/2020 08:41

Urgh, non men is horrible. Sympathies, OP.

Can you challenge in person at all? I find it’s much easier to take the heat out when it’s offline. I go for the questioning approach: “I wonder if this language actually discourages women from feeling included?” Sort of thing.

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 21/11/2020 08:35

Non men = all not male humans over the age of 16 then?

BraveBananaBadge · 21/11/2020 08:33

I have been pondering this too. A women’s group I know of has started appealing for “fmale identifying” people to get involved. FMALE IDENTIFYING.

I’ve not seen that anywhere else and am frankly too afraid to ask. With benefit of the doubt, I’m wondering if they’ve got a bit confused in their bid to be inclusive and it’s some kind of accidental riff on ‘womxn’. At worst they’ve started picking off letters in the word female so as not to offend... who exactly??