Why GC feminists shouldn’t trust US conservatives

Mate, I’m not the one keeping up with Tommy Robinson’s appearances 😂

You’re very au fait with what Tommy Robinson gets up to JJ. Not the first time you’ve shoehorned him into a conversation.

You will keep failing to understand that while gender critical feminism and free speech issues have common ground on this topic, they aren’t the same thing, and not everyone who meets on the common ground stays on the common ground. Harry isn’t coming at this from feminism, so for Pete’s sake will you stop lecturing us as if we’re accountable for everything he does?

me too... has JJ been taking DRUGS??? Can I request mods that we have a clean discussion thread without any pharmaceutical enhancements of cognitative thinking

it's probably best not to derail this thread

Just taking a moment to appreciate this comment.

'smashing up safeguarding policies' HOW HOW???

And he is not watching a film or spending Christmas with a Tory. He is giving active support to a far right organisation, and not for the first time. An organisation that would destroy women's right and LGB rights if they could with links, via Tommy Robinson, to far right violence. Yet instead of condemning him for this association your instinct is to act as an apologist for him. Anything to own the trans eh. And that's why people accuse the gender critical movement of links to the conservative, religious and far right.

Fair play @Butterer I'm glad there are some people left with the integrity to speak against this.

Yes its batshit.. because I have spent many weekends in close proximity to my sister in law and her parents who are tories... that does not make me a tory. I asked to watch Leni Reifenstal's Triumph of the Will when I was studying documentary at university - it did not make me a Nazi. You do not magically inbibe quallities from others by one's proximity. Harry's court case is of enormous significance for free speech in this country. PERIOD.

Are you happy to see Harry platformed alongside anti-feminist activists like Carl Benjamin, who lest we forget, thinks it's funny to make jokes about raping political opponents? It seems the tolerance some have for working with the religious right in the US extends to working with the far right in the UK.

Thanks jj for something else to add to the 'batshit comments' collection!
😂😂😂

I call this thread: how far can you stretch a straw man until it breaks

I think this is probably relevant to this thread. Harry Miller is appearing at an alt-right conference this weekend alongside Anne_Marie Evans and Carl Benjamin organised by a group which includes Tommy Robinson and Men's Rights Activist Matt O'Connor. It seems the links between the gender critical movement and the far right are growing ever closer.

I'm not going to read seven pages of this - I'm just going by the tread title which is TRANSLATION "your lady brains are too small to understand anything about US right wing conservatives"

And please imagine me putting the finger up to the orginal poster. YOU PATRONISING FUCKER.

So because one shares your public position on trans - and I can assure you their private position is much closer to what I posted in the OP based on my experience with American churches - doesn’t mean you should entertain it as a serious option for GC feminists.
A serious option for..what?

I am not understanding this thread in many places, and again I wish I had read it all before posting (always say that, and cannot get into the habit of RTFT)

I find it odd, that 2 posters, seemingly only one of them saying what you imply they said, can possibly be in any way 'representative' of the women here tbh. I find it odder that this was in September and its taken until now to make a thread on it!

The feminists = rightwing conservative fundamentalists (or supporters of anti abortion stuff, because on one topic the views sort of align but for different reasons) stuff is both amusing and depressing to me. From who I have spoken to, the vast majority of feminists have mostly left wing views, but feel abandoned by the left, as 'the left' wants to give away womens rights also, just in a 'more progressive, nicer way' But also, of course right wing people can be feminists too.

At our last UK election, it kind of felt like voting if I would prefer herpes or syphillis to be quite honest. I have been politically homeless for a while now.

I have always been a lefty, though of course it meas quite a different thing in the UK..but I feel 100% abandned by the left, and actively silenced at times, like when Labour is doing witch hunts to remove people who believe in biology from their membership ranks..

this is my dilemma too. When a well-known TRA Labour Party women's officer was 'rubbing their hands' online and bragging about having access to all this data on all these 'terfs' it put a chill down my spine and I left. Didn't feel the Labour Party was a safe place for me any more. This was on the back of other general slurs toward women from this officer on twitter, plus another woman's officer who invited fellow party members to 'suck my lady' on twitter. There was also the comments from Andy Burnham basically telling women to get out.
Like everyone else here though I've obviously no delusions about the conservative right in US.

I don’t really like the expression ‘white feminism’ and would prefer something like ‘middle-class feminism’ but this would be an example of it- expecting others to ignore a major issue that directly affects them.

That sounds extremely familiar..

I wouldn't say trust is there tbh. A (very) few opinions may align, but thats about it. I know some 'debates' or whatever have gone on with 'the american right' but the issue with whinging about that is..well 'the left' won't entertain a conversation (broadly, not each individual person, obviously), nor will they allow views that differ from their wont to be aired in any way. So it appears to sometimes be a choice, appear with people you vehemently disagree with, to talk about something, or just shut up and say nothing. Neither is too good an option, but of course, many activists reckon women should just swallow it, be quiet, and let everyone else have their way instead.

Anyone who wants equality for women, even if they are GC, should be deeply distrustful of the American right.

That though? 'The left' is currently no good for women either. So, rock meet hard place.

I have always been a lefty, though of course it meas quite a different thing in the UK..but I feel 100% abandned by the left, and actively silenced at times, like when Labour is doing witch hunts to remove people who believe in biology from their membership ranks..

And in answer to your question, OP:

Are trans rights issues not linked to feminism?

No. Not in any way, shape or form. Why on earth would they be?

The only trans people whose rights would be fought for under feminism are biologically female people who identify as trans/NB - but that’s because they’re female, not because they’re trans.

So no, “trans rights” in and of themselves are nothing to do with feminism at all. And indeed the demands of TRAs run exactly counter to the aims of feminism in very many ways, as you will well know.

[quote turnitonagain]@NotBadConsidering

Again - the “batshit” groups I’m posting are welcomed and even endorsed the Republican Party. They’re not fringe weirdos as far as American politics goes.

They’re trying to use concerns about trans in sports etc to get politicians in who want to take away healthcare, family planning, and abortion rights.

UK GC feminists don’t have to worry about this. It’s a different battleground in America.[/quote]
I love the idea that an obvious TRA/ally would come on here and talk about “batshit” groups being welcomed and endorsed by the Republicans.

Have you really no idea how batshit the whole TRA argument is, and how it’s been espoused by alarming numbers of mainstream politicians of various parties here?

Take Labour MP Dawn Butler and her comment on GMB earlier this year:
A child is born without sex, a child is formed without sex in the beginning.

I mean, seriously!

And all the gubbins about clownfish and mushrooms and god knows what, which gets retweeted and regurgitated by an embarrassing number of people who really ought to know better.

The bedrock itself of your ideology, the idea that TWAW, repeated by British politicians too numerous too mention, is a completely illogical, untenable position. There is absolutely no coherent definition of “woman” according to which it actually has any truth or meaning. It is gibberish. Units of sound that can be uttered by anyone but convey nothing except the utterer’s slavish devotion to a quasi-religious ideology that is entirely faith based and has no basis in material reality.

And yet which has been aggressively promoted by trans lobby groups and adopted by captured individuals, institutions and organisations far and wide here in the UK as if it were actually a genuine fact.

And you have the front to come on here and make like you’re bringing us some illuminating truth about the “batshit”/anti-science agenda of the Christian Right in the USA, like we’re all foolish women in thrall to those mad, bad people and you’re the lone voice of reason, like we’re the ones who don’t know what’s going on or see where the danger lies!

Do me a favour.

Nobody trusts US conservatives except other US conservatives, surely? I don't see the point of someone even having started this thread. It suggests to me that someone has spent too long down conspiracy theory rabbit holes on their computer.