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Original poster

Womens liberation and lesbianism

130 replies

LesbianonFWR · 19/11/2020 19:41

I've been reading this board for years. I'm a lesbian. It feels like until recently, there was a good appreciation here of the importance of lesbian rights to women's liberation and the womens' rights movement. If lesbians face discrimination and oppression, then it's harder to come out and lead a good life as a lesbian - more lesbians will get stuck in straight marriages that make them unhappy. More young lesbians will struggle with bullying at school. If lesbians who want to be parents are supported by the community in doing that, again, it makes it easier to imagine a good, fulfilling life as a lesbian. Easier to come out and live honestly for lesbians - that's important to women's liberation.

It suddenly feels more hostile to lesbians here. Does anyone else feel that, or is it just me? Like, there is reasonably regular criticism of lesbians who have kids by sperm donation, criticism of LGBT education/anti-bullying classes in schools as a whole. A general anti-LGBT feeling as a whole, which includes a feeling that lesbians are fine now in 2020 and just need to get over themselves and get on with it and not moan.

Maybe that's unfair, but it feels like there's quite a bit of talk about lesbians as "those people in the LGBT club over there" rather than as part of the women's liberation movement.

You're going to want examples aren't you, but I don't think I have the energy and anyway, then it would be a thread about a thread. It's more a feeling that this board is for straight women now. Does anyone else feel that?

OP posts:
Original poster
LesbianonFWR · 19/11/2020 21:08

That's nice twoHopes, thanks. I'm sorry your friends don't have it easy. I think most lesbians are probably careful from time to time about the contexts in which it feels a good idea to be open about your sexuality/hold hands/come out, and when it's just going to cause trouble. That's life.

OP posts:
Original poster
LesbianonFWR · 19/11/2020 20:58

That's really nice of you to say sorry, Chala, but no need!

As a flat-shoed lesbian, I didn't feel like it was a non-issue to come out at work 10 years ago. I mean, it depends on the workplace and the person, of course and for some, it will have felt 100% fine - but my guess is, for a minority. I've a professional, secure job and a good employer, but it was still a bit scary to come out at work 10 years ago. It still is, a bit, even as a middle-aged woman. Loads of people are homophobic, whether they really realise that or not - I don't think there has been a regression in LGB rights at work recently. Maybe a regression in how women on this board feel about lesbians and training/discussion about homophobia at work.

The threads criticising donor conception are going to feel shit for a lot of lesbians aren't they - especially if from the perspective that children's rights are being overlooked. Like almost all mums, most lesbian mums love their kids more than anything, and it's hard to feel that your motivations in having kids are questioned or that women think you've harmed the kids who mean everything to you (even as you see them, and other lesbians' kids of all ages, thriving). That's not to say that it's not a valid discussion to have - of course it is. But listening to it is often like "us" straight women talking about "you lesbians" who don't put your kids' welfare first. Ouch.

OP posts:
twoHopes · 19/11/2020 20:49

I frequent this forum very rarely so I can't really comment on what you're saying. But I just wanted to say that I completely disagree with the idea that lesbians have it easy. Many of my closest friends are lesbian and it really upsets me that they feel they have to hide their sexuality so as not to be judged or leered at. It's appalling that this is still the case in 2020. I'm sorry if you don't feel supported by this forum as I completely agree with you that lesbian rights are fundamental to women's rights as a group.

ChakaDakotaRegina · 19/11/2020 20:39

I’m sorry if it seems hostile. I haven’t picked up on that (but not L so may be missing a tone)

I think the views about LGBT education in schools etc are more directed at the conflicts between the LGB and the T and the Q. There seems particular pressure for the L to be nice and make room. There have been threads noting how L do not feel represented by the rainbow flag anymore. I feel we were nearing a point 10 years ago where LGB was accepted in the workplace as normal and the stereotypes about flat lesbian shoes and glittery shirtless gays were reducing. Somehow we seem to be heading back to an idea that LGBT+ means different (not on here, in life)

I think the threads on conception are more distrustful of the way women’s bodies are being used and the rights of children being overlooked.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 19/11/2020 19:55

I think that many people have become collateral damage in the whole TRA thing.

In exploring those issues all sorts of additional issues are being discussed, the many ways the female body is exploited is being openly debated in many places. Surrogacy debate widened to all sorts of other related issues. I don't think it's aimed at lesbians, personally I don't think any fertility treatment should be a right for anyone... available yes, but an entitlement? No!

And many here are lesbian. Others very vocal on the 'chicks with dicks' lie. More so on the 'Lesbian? No dear girl you are a man!' stupidity.

So I don't think being lesbian is the issue, it's part of a wider problem, patriarchal of course!