USA gymnastic trans inclusion policy

It really is amazing - blokes on the beam doing sequences of flips the women said it had taken them years to master, and on the uneven bars doing the sort of flip from lower to higher bar I've heard commentators say is incredibly hard - yet making it look absolutely effortless because of the huge advantage in upper body strength.

As for flexibility and the other supposed advantages women have - well, the men don't seem to have the slightest problem with that.

I can’t imagine a male being able to do the high beam or the 2 high swingy bars (oh yes I have all the terminology) without knutting himself.

I coached university gymnastics in the late 90’s, and shorts/leggings were allowed then.

Having coached to that standard, I'd be really interested in your opinion of the video clip Michelle (I think it was) posted upthread of the two female Olympic medallists watching male gymnasts (not particularly special ones either) doing women's gymnastic routines, and just doing moves neither woman would have been capable of in their prime, simply because men are a shit load stronger.

(I used to be quite a reasonable rock-climber back in the day. I have no illusions that men with crap technique could climb pretty much the hardest stuff I did simply on superior upper body strength, and that with the technique I'd had to develop in order to climb English 5b on the lead as a woman, I'd have been rock solid on E5 if I'd been male).

Nothing to add that has not already been said. Another nail in the tra coffin. Shut up little women. So sad.

International rules were changed in 2013z. Shorts were allowed at regional level before that.

I have no idea whether it was because of a trans agenda. As far as I am aware there was a big push from recreational levels in particular to keep older girls competing, and also to provide options for those who needed to cover for religious reasons. A lot of pressure came from university gymnastics and trampoline groups with muslim members, or those who felt leotards kept them from taking part.

I coached university gymnastics in the late 90’s, and shorts/leggings were allowed then.

I think they recently changed the rules around shorts because male children who identify as girls wanted to take part, but the leotard alone would "out" them, so they wanted to be allowed to wear shorts over the leotard. However, they realised this too would be outing for the "trans" children as they'd then be the only ones in shorts, so they then relented and said girls could wear shorts too. ... they adamantly refused to let girls from religious families wear shorts, despite many years of asking. Until the rule inconvenienced males, it was a complete no-go to change it

Astonishing. So blatantly misogynistic. Another PP's daughter dropped out after her periods started because she couldn't risk bleeding through a leotard. If girls need something, that's their tough luck.

It really needs to be recognised by the trans community that these woke blokes are really no friend of theirs. They have no real interest in the issues they like to use, and they certainly don't believe that sex is not binary. What they're enjoying here is the opportunity to loudly tell women how they were born to lose out to men; that is always the core of what they are saying, wrapped in gleeful joy that it's virtuous to say so. Even better, they get to scold and punish women for resisting or even disagreeing. It's an unpleasantly sexist male's wet dream. It's all about sex being biological, fixed and binary, and hierarchical. This is one long sneer of 'sucks to be you.... and you can't do anything about it.'

Is freedom to participate in women's gymnastics and (because the presumption is clear here that yes, this will result in women getting less medals so the writer themselves is saying they believe male people have an unfair advantage) getting to take the women's medals really going to be The solution to someone feeling suicidal? This seems an extremely superficial and naive way to approach the very serious issue of someone expressing suicidal ideation due to gender dysphoria.

Is this the recommended action by mental health professionals, to immediately give that person whatever they feel they want that would make them happier? Bearing in mind that there will be years of work and training and competing involved and not just turning up to a competition to get the medals, is this massive level of commitment and stress really something that someone in such a profound state of stress and instability could (or even should) manage in itself, never mind find a happy ever after solution to suicidal ideation, considering that they will be doing most of this through their childhood and teen years?

Or is this yet another male without the faintest knowledge or respect for anyone at all in the situation, expressing his ignorance largely because he enjoys telling females their job in life is to give and serve males. Because obviously, the whole reason all of those female gymnasts have trained for years and all the funding and expense of the competitions has been put in place was not in his opinion to develop and support the talent of female people to achieve the best they are able on the national stage.... but merely to provide the setting for therapeutic mental health opportunities for male people.

They want more physical health access. But mental health access is a Very Bad Thing.

But the suicide this is pretty dangerous. Surely it would be better to explore if this is true and if so - what can they do to help (and saying ‘yes’ isn’t it?)

How utterly utterly surprising. The suicide thing is brought up constantly as a way to make people shut up and feel mean for even caring about the women. If you care about women and voice this, someone might kill themselves, so don't ever argue with us or you are a murderer

The interesting thing is there is absolutely no evidence to suggest trans people are at higher risk of SH or suicide than the general population.

The data does not exist as there’s no way to collect it.

It seems to stem from stonewall/mermaids questioning their trans members as to whether they had thoughts of SH or suicide. Which, as you’d expect, the answer was yes, these people are troubled whether you believe it’s dysphoria or being genuinely trapped in the wrong body.

So this mantra of trans people being at high risk of suicide or SH has no basis in fact. It’s pretty much an urban myth.

Can bet your arse these people don't actually give a damn about mental health. Infact, that they fight for LESS, or even no counselling for those with GD, that proves in itself they don't care about mental health.
I’m not sure that TRAs would admit they want less access to mental health support for trans people, but certainly the fact that they will only accept “affirmative” therapy, and tend to cast any exploration into aetiology of gender dysphoria as “conversion therapy” does mean in effect they argue for a strict limit put on the therapy available to trans people.

They stated something like wasn’t less suicides worth females winning a few less medals.....

How utterly utterly surprising. The suicide thing is brought up constantly as a way to make people shut up and feel mean for even caring about the women. If you care about women and voice this, someone might kill themselves, so don't ever argue with us or you are a murderer.

Can bet your arse these people don't actually give a damn about mental health. Infact, that they fight for LESS, or even no counselling for those with GD, that proves in itself they don't care about mental health.

They stated something like wasn’t less suicides worth females winning a few less medals.....

And there, yet again, is the profound sexist misogyny that underpins every inch of this.

The belief that females matter less, are worth less, and whatever they do with their little selves it ought to be useful to and serving men anyway.

I've moved from trying to rationally debate with this to an increasingly disgusted Just fuck OFF.

Jockeys - but women can race with men anyway can’t/don’t they?

Sorry, posted before reading the thread OK they have an advantage here too, makes sense. I cannot see fuss being made abut 'inclusion' policies in areas wher women would outperform men.

I cannot see many men wanting to compete with women in gymnastics. Its one of the few areas where a woman would out perform a man generally speaking, I would think anyway..unless it appeals to some as the women get to wear sparkly leotards and stuff

Mind I guess theres still the changing rooms issue to worry about, its not only about fairness, but fairness is a big part.

They will end up having to change the marking systems and specified moves/jumps (sorry I don’t know the marking terms) To accommodate the strengths/agility/moves of the different types of bodies surely?

This will bite the woke countries in the arse, as the more unscrupulous countries will exploit it and win by doing so. Unfortunately it's the damage done in the mean time, damage to children who will be forced to compete as trans in those other countries and damage to girls in countries like the US who rely on their sport for a college scholarship and the exclusion of girls from their own sports.

I really thought sport would be the tipping point in this.

Those poor girls who were abused by the team doctor. He knew...

I have a ten year old male gymnast. He is skinny as a twig and very much prepubescent but it is quite clear looking at him and his gym mates of the same age that they are men in the making. Their bodies even at 8 or 10 are already so different to the girls.
Boys and girls are different. It is biology, not feelings.

Excellent post notbad as per.

I don't have children at school but my inclination (upon discovering that a girl of mine is expected to play sport with males) would be to tell the school that's not going to happen and ask that she could do something else in the games lesson.

How would that go down? Has anyone successfully pulled a girl out of such nonsense?

I assume there will be allowances for costumes. How will they ever decide who gets to wear the shorts and vest?

And the whole pubertal/prepubertal argument? It doesn’t matter! I have 3 DD, one post, one peri, and one prepubertal. None of them want to compete against males, at all, ever. My prepubertal DD recognises there are sex-based differences even at her age of 8, and wants to be the best girl. She doesn’t want to compete against boys, no matter what their inner feelings are telling them. I will never capitulate to the idea that her idea of fair competition is wrong. These boys can do what they want with their own sex class. It doesn’t need to be justified, it doesn’t need science, it doesn’t need research. Women and girls’ sport is for women and girls.

The adults enabling this entitlement in children, allowing them to think they are owed what they want rather than what is fair and right, can fuck off, then fuck off some more, then fuck off to the far side of fuck.

Rant over