Drag everywhere

Drag has become mainstream, meaning for some drag queens who need to shock, just dressing 'as a woman' has to become more and more over the top. It has to be bordering on the offensive otherwise they don't get the attention they need. This is why drag has changed from pantomime to gross charactures that has nothing to do with women anymore

The mainstream drag queens aren't "gross and offensive" from what I've seen.
Watched Drag Race UK last year for example, enjoyed it.
A lot of it was creating costumes for different tasks, or lip synching to pop tunes.
Nothing to do with talking about fish, or fetishes which people seem to think on here that all drag queens do.

So Quagaars, what do you think is harmless about the names mentioned above?

Drag has become mainstream, meaning for some drag queens who need to shock, just dressing 'as a woman' has to become more and more over the top. It has to be bordering on the offensive otherwise they don't get the attention they need. This is why drag has changed from pantomime to gross charactures that has nothing to do with women anymore. It also attracks some very unsavory characters with fetishes. But women can't protest? No one can say look, this has gone too far, we don't like it anymorr, please stop? No, then we are being 'Karens' and should just ignore it. Would you ever say that to another group of people?

Why is the comparison 'ridiculous' and 'offensive' Quaagars?

I honestly find the term woman face laughable.
It's honestly ridiculous in my opinion, and find it more offensive comparing it to black face than anything else!
If you don't like drag, fair enough, switch off.
I personally don't see the problem - I mean, the "argument" (for want of a better word) is usually "men thinking they're women" by people on here.
Drag - it's literally a costume.
Express yourself how you want, I mean it's been going on in pantomimes for years and no-one gets offended by Widow Twanky (well I assume they don't, I'm no doubt wrong though lol)

the “fish” reference is more about someone falling for them being a woman “hook, line and sinker” rather than a smell

Of course it does. And "hunty" refers to the hunt for the perfect weave. Give me a break!

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]I don’t agree drag is “womanface” either. And the “fish” reference is more about someone falling for them being a woman “hook, line and sinker” rather than a smell.
Drag has been part of European culture for centuries. In the 1660s there are records of men dressing in drag as women at royal courts for parties, and women dressing as men too.
It is also a performance art tracing back to medieval times when men played women’s parts on stage in theatres before actresses were legalised. Even today, we have women now playing mens parts.

www.rsc.org.uk/news/archive/women-playing-male-roles[/quote]
Slavery, child prostitution and the death penalty were part of European culture for centuries- are you defending those practices as well?@PlanDeRaccordement

Drag is womanface. It is offensive and misogynistic.

And @Guineapigbridge so women are not victims? Tell that to the girls abused with FGM or menstruation shaming, the battered wives of lockdown abuse, the women raped and their cases dropped, the women underpayed, overworked, ignored, or the families of the many many women murdered by male pattern violence. Drag culture belittles every single one of these lives.

the “fish” reference is more about someone falling for them being a woman “hook, line and sinker” rather than a smell

Oh come on, it's possible to defend drag, if you so wish, without gaslighting. It's offensive, so is the word hunty. Reel me in with the artistic arguments by all means, but the slang is clearly offensive. It's not homophobic to point that out either Mishy.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]I don’t agree drag is “womanface” either. And the “fish” reference is more about someone falling for them being a woman “hook, line and sinker” rather than a smell.
Drag has been part of European culture for centuries. In the 1660s there are records of men dressing in drag as women at royal courts for parties, and women dressing as men too.
It is also a performance art tracing back to medieval times when men played women’s parts on stage in theatres before actresses were legalised. Even today, we have women now playing mens parts.

www.rsc.org.uk/news/archive/women-playing-male-roles[/quote]

I still don't like it.

It ruins Strictly for me. And you only get a few seconds..

I don’t agree drag is “womanface” either. And the “fish” reference is more about someone falling for them being a woman “hook, line and sinker” rather than a smell.
Drag has been part of European culture for centuries. In the 1660s there are records of men dressing in drag as women at royal courts for parties, and women dressing as men too.
It is also a performance art tracing back to medieval times when men played women’s parts on stage in theatres before actresses were legalised. Even today, we have women now playing mens parts.

www.rsc.org.uk/news/archive/women-playing-male-roles

But why aren't Minstrel Shows equally considered to be art? I mean, I don't think they are, but I don't see the difference between those and drag.

Drag has become more mainstream due to the popularity of shows such as Ru Paul's Drag Race, which brings out some really talented performers.

This whole thread borders on the homophobic. They are not akin to blackface and racial prejudice, which was simply horrible and for ridicule.

If you don't like drag acts, don't go to seem them or watch them on tv. Simple. x

It is not 'black face'. It is not an act of aggression directed at us

How does it differ exactly?

So the fish references aren't offensive? Just for clarity Guinea. Am I allowed to find them offensive? Oh, and I was referring to the protected characteristics under the equality act.

The distinction between queer culture and gay 'culture' (cultures) is useful though. I am only just learning about these things. I read somewhere a while back that there is a sort of war between the cultures. People who identify as gay are suspicious of queers and lesbians (the latter they think of as officious and dull), and people who identify as lesbian are suspicious of gays (who they think of as flippant) and queers (who they don't trust sexually). Which leaves queers, who are suspicious of everyone they look down upon as 'vanilla' including all gays and lesbians who lead lives with jobs and mortgages etc. I doubt the stereotype is true in all situations but I thought it was interesting at a population-level. Sorry if I've offended anyone - just repeating back someone else's take on it all.

now imagine that on any other protected group

Women are NOT a protected group. We are not even a minority. Claiming victimhood where none exists is starting to get embarrassing. Can we just get a grip here: haven't we got anything better to do than flare up in internet outrage over something so...fun/tacky/meaningless?

A man in makeup and a dress pretends to be a woman in a cheap, vaudeville show isn't a true threat to the sisterhood. It is not 'black face'. It is not an act of aggression directed at us.

The worst one I've seen is JonBenet Blonde. I started a thread about it last week.

A drag act named after a murdered, fetishized 6 year old girl. Utterly vile.

Drag is vile womanface. It needs to be taken out; it’s one front in the war on women.

I’d heard of Cheryl Hole before they appeared on Drag Race. Hated HATED the name and assumed they would be a really snidey, crass act. The queen came across as a really sweet person and was a huge fan of girl bands, their style, their dance routines - living out a fantasy as a performer, something they couldn’t do as a man. Still absolutely hate that stage name and am taking on board the discussions I see on this board about drag. I’m not an apologist. But it’s not always what it might seem.

Now imagine a smell being used to describe any other protected group

RuPaul's Drag Race = normalisation of misogyny. I first heard about the term 'fish' when a lesbian friend explained, from her own personal experience, that gay men often referred to women using that term in a pejorative way. I honestly couldn't believe that it has been waived as being totally acceptable for prime time tv audiences because drag artists use the term:

A fishy drag queen is a queen that looks like a biological woman — usually to the point of actually seeming like a woman at first glance.
“Fish” or “fishy” in the drag world is a reference to that part of a woman’s body during that time of month, as some would say that it exudes a smell reminiscent of fish.
“Fishy: A term used to describe a drag queen who looks extremely feminine or one who convincingly resembles a biological woman. The term refers to the supposed scent of a woman's vagina, which is colloquially likened to the smell of fish.”

Here's Elle Aus, explaining how it's just RuPaul's drag race slang:

www.elle.com.au/culture/rupauls-drag-race-dictionary-19207

Yes that ident there! FUCK OFF

Cabaret even!