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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Nothing like every day sexist presumptions is there?'

38 replies

Autumncolourlover · 18/11/2020 09:54

Considering it's a catholic school and last year boys and girls were angels then you'd think they'd have thought that some of the lads might want to be angels again. Angel Gabriel was a man after all. I hate this sexist stereotyped shit. Ds is 5 and is a natural for the part of an angel with his long blond hair and angelic devil in disguise looks. This sort of thing really pisses me off. I might be a bit cranky today anyway as he's being bullied because of his hair with the phrase "like a girl" used as an insult.

Nothing like every day sexist presumptions is there?'
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Hoppinggreen · 19/11/2020 10:03

Although I agree OP you go on to day that your son is a natural for an angel with his long blonde hair, and presumably he’s white too
So well done for highlighting casual sexism but then have a think about casual racism as well

YetAnotherSpartacus · 19/11/2020 10:00

Dd1 was cast as a camel one year. She had tonsillitis so missed it. They did have a girl play Bugsy Malone though. Not in the nativity obviously

Personally, I think they missed an interesting new angle and artistic interpretation of an old classic there that might have served to revive a stale and somewhat 'overdone' genre.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 19/11/2020 09:40

“We three persons who identify as very privileged male gender of Orient are...”

Just reminded me, for my kid's nativities, they three wise men weren't always boys, there has been a mix of boys and girls.
Was never the case when I was doing nativities, but that was almost 40 years ago...

NewlyGranny · 18/11/2020 15:42

Ah, in my teaching days in an RC primary I had a sex and race mixed bunch of angels... Simple cream muslin spangled with gold stars for their robes with medieval sleeves so their arms looked like wings when they spread them, and the simplest filet of gold curling ribbon round their brows for a halo, bare feet. Angels are sexless creations usually described as youths in shining white.

I designed the robes, bought the fabric, cut them out, sent then home with instructionsand the parents were asked to get them sewn up.

They looked.... angelic!

Pahrump · 18/11/2020 15:42

I was: gabriel in first year infants and the star of bethlehem in second year infants.

Crowning glory though was being part of the Shepherds fire in reception year. There were 4 of us who knelt on the ground in red clothes waving orange and yellow pompom things to signify flames. Almost 40 years ago but I still remember it Grin

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 18/11/2020 15:25

Throughout primary across multiple schools in multiple countries I was always Mary...because I had very long very dark hair. At Sunday school it was usually the same apart from one year when I had to be Gabriel as I was the only kid tall enough for the giant wings they'd acquired. One year we even had a female Joseph (British forces school abroad in the 80s...according to mum no one cared). As far as I can remember, there was always a mix of female shepherds/male angels.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 18/11/2020 15:00

The more I hear, the more I think I've been very lucky. When I was a kid, yes, all the girls were angels, and the boys shepherds (unless there was a huge disparity in number, when they'd move kids to the under-subscribed parts). Dark haired, chubby me never had a look-in as Mary, but I was Gabriel more than once...

My kids though - the productions they've been in have been completely mixed, parts carefully doled out so that everyone gets to say something (once of an age that was possible - group stuff before then) - if they had groups then it was more that class 1 would be the shepherds, class 2 would be the angels or whatever - outside of Mary and Joseph, anyone got any part (no innkeeper and wife either from what I remember, just an innkeeper of either sex)

To my surprise, at DS1's first school, it was also genuinely enjoyable - must have been a tuneful year, plus they'd bought in a script/music which was very good rather than the old, dry one I'd done throughout my childhood.

Whatwouldscullydo · 18/11/2020 14:04

You do know we were kids right...

Dissecting the bibles metaphors and true meanings to the degree of adults with religious studies degrees was a bit beyond eveb the most inquisitive and well read 10 year olds. Some of us were still trying to work out how it even fitted in with their belief in aliens and paranormal activity

FannysSteadiedBuffs · 18/11/2020 14:02

DS was a "green biblical animal" one year. Exact which one was not clear Grin

I do wonder if the Catholic teachers look at all the other schools doing more non-traditional Christmas plays with their space ships and zebras, while they are stuck with the same trad Mary and angels shizz all the time and think "please God can we jazz it up a little this year?"

Opticabbage · 18/11/2020 13:55

My sister wasn't allowed to be an angel because she had black hair. Just as wanky.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/11/2020 13:55

you apparently fail to grasp that Jesus WAS God incarnate - ie in human form

Given that the now orthodox doctrine of the trinity wasn't really formulated until some centuries AD, and isn't exactly explicit in the gospels I wouldn't really blame kids pondering the Nativity story for that.

Babdoc · 18/11/2020 13:43

I do realise the PPs complaining about God’s treatment of Mary were probably just joking, but they really could have checked their bible to get their facts straight.
We don’t know Mary’s exact age, but we do know she was old enough to be engaged to marry Joseph. She freely gave her consent to the pregnancy when Gabriel first told her about it - “Behold, the handmaid of the Lord. Be it unto me according to thy will.”
If she HAD simply got pregnant by cheating on Joseph, he would have stuck to his original plan of quietly dumping her. He only changed his mind when visited by Gabriel in a dream and reassured that Mary was indeed carrying a child begotten by God.
As for “why didn’t God raise his own son?” - you apparently fail to grasp that Jesus WAS God incarnate - ie in human form. And willing to suffer torture and death at human hands, rather than give Himself special treatment or a pampered childhood.

Autumncolourlover · 18/11/2020 13:36

@BlueCatRedCat sorry, that's other people always telling me how angelic he looks rather than my particular view. As Catholics we do believe in angels though.

OP posts:
viques · 18/11/2020 12:53

@ErrolTheDragon

Never seen a male Mary

That would be beyond the bounds of idiocy a miracle too far even for god, I think!

The way things are going it will probably be the norm in a couple of years.......

“We three persons who identify as very privileged male gender of Orient are...”.

PopperUppleton · 18/11/2020 12:49

I was a King with a gold crown and my dressing gown with ladybird buttons Smile

Whatwouldscullydo · 18/11/2020 12:41
Grin

I'd have chanced it... we could have had the whole " why did God get an underage girl pregnant " conversation as we stood outside the heads office ...

JustCallMeGriffin · 18/11/2020 12:38

Whatwouldscullydo I was the awkward kid asking questions no one else did. Apparently that makes you a malcontent.

I'd have got you in trouble! Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 18/11/2020 12:33

Never seen a male Mary

That would be beyond the bounds of idiocy a miracle too far even for god, I think!

Whatwouldscullydo · 18/11/2020 12:26

But then I was also the child that questioned why everyone believed Mary when she said she was pregnant but because "God did it" when it was more likely she had a tumble under a tree with someone that wasn't Joseph so maybe I'm not the best to comment on that

I wish you'd have been at my school...I might have actually had a friend Grin

Only of you could answer why God didnt raise his own child...

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 18/11/2020 12:23

Ive seen loads of nativities over 3 schools. Never seen a male Mary, or a female Joseph. Every other part... Boys and girls. Kings, sheep, angels, snowflakes, donkeys, townspeople, random other characters (my DD was a midwife last year!)

JustCallMeGriffin · 18/11/2020 12:23

Given that in the bible the angels are referred to in the masculine tense and with masculine names I've always found it odd that girls were the 'default' for angels. But then I was also the child that questioned why everyone believed Mary when she said she was pregnant but because "God did it" when it was more likely she had a tumble under a tree with someone that wasn't Joseph so maybe I'm not the best to comment on that.

However, the assertion that blonde curls and blue eyes makes for a natural angel far more disturbing than the everyday sexism at play IMO.

Whatwouldscullydo · 18/11/2020 12:21

And of course Mary didn't have wonky feet and a big nose...

Whatwouldscullydo · 18/11/2020 12:21

I was probably too fat ( by fat I mean I wasn't a stick and my thighs and arse have their own zip code) to be an angel and in bedsheets you wouldn't be subjected to having to look at it...Grin

ErrolTheDragon · 18/11/2020 12:18

I hankered after being a wise man - they were always 'kings' with gold card crowns adorned with jewels (Rowntrees fruit gums) and they got to make a dramatic entrance from the back of the church and march down the aisles. And the subversive chance to say 'Frankenstein'. EnvyGrin

Whatwouldscullydo · 18/11/2020 12:06

Just as presumptuous of white children with blonde hair being angels..

Ha yes...

I always wanted to be an angle, dunno why, but despite being white I had mousey hair with the dodgyist fringe you ever saw, I usually got cast as a shepherd, think I was one of the three wise men one yr

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