"Transgender man, 34, loses legal battle to be named as the father on his child's birth certificate as Supreme Court refuses to hear his case"

Pretty expensive to give birth in Sweden

www.expatfinder.com/sweden/expat-guides/article/having-a-baby-in-sweden/1243

Maybe I'm being thick here, or maybe I'm just blind to the shenanigans now, but - if Freddie is on the birth certificate as 'father', then what is written in the 'mother' box? Nothing at all?

I was thinking about this earlier.

I was thinking, in Freddys ideal scenario, would the 'father's section contain Freddy's name and the 'mother' section contain Freddy's partner (if there is one?)

So a child would have a birth certificate which stated that a woman who did not give birth to them is their mother and a woman who did give birth to them is their father?

Won't the child have....questions? Even a child who has been fully indoctrinated would think at some point 'hang on a minute....'

And all of this to validate the identity of an adult who wants to be known as something they care factually, and objectively, not?

You know, a thought has just occurred to me about why trans activists are fixated on the birth certificate issue. It interacts with the gender recognition act in an awkward way. Once a person gets a gender recognition certificate, they become for most legal purposes their 'acquired gender'. It is illegal for employers or public bodies to disclose the person's birth sex. The fact of their birth sex becomes a confidential matter. But if a trans man has a child, the child's birth certificate (which is a public, and not private document) must record the actual fact that the trans man is the child's mother, which in English law means the trans man has actually given birth to the child. So a trans man might have a GRC which makes it illegal to disclose that they were born a woman, but the game can be entirely given away by the child's non-confidential birth certificate in which it is legally required to state the fact that the trans man gave birth. There is a dilemma. The GRC says you can't mention the fact they were born female, ever. But the birth certificate of the child demands it. I imagine that what Freddie and other trans men want to do is close this loophole, so the GRC really does mean they become for all purposes their 'acquired gender'. To my mind, this just goes to show what an awful mess the entire GRC process created as it intersects with other areas of law.

Maybe I'm being thick here, or maybe I'm just blind to the shenanigans now, but - if Freddie is on the birth certificate as 'father', then what is written in the 'mother' box? Nothing at all?

"no birth certificate, or one that opens them up to discrimination and abuse later in life, because it inaccurately lists Freddy as their 'mother'."
So this would be a birth certificate with a name in the 'mother' box and ?nothing? in the father box? I'd presume lots of children have such a certificate.

I genuinely do not see how there being no name listed as father could lead to "discrimination and abuse" to the child. But, I can see eyebrows being raised and perplexed questions being asked of a birth certificate with a blank in the 'mother' box.

Also, I'm not clear - does SJ have a birth certificate or not? I thought it was illegal to not register a birth in the UK, I can see it having been delayed while it went through court, but surely a certificate has now been issued?

I wondered whether for a birth of a British national in Sweden there would still need to be a British birth certificate but apparently not:

www.gov.uk/register-a-birth

The Swedish birth certificate can be used for all (?) purposes although it does involve more admin.

I imagine the most obvious way that people will know that Freddy is the child’s mother rather than the father is the documentary made by Freddy documenting the pregnancy, news articles in the Guardian and articles by Freddy, multiple tweets and the outcome of a High Court challenge freely accessible to everyone. But sure, it will be the birth certificate that will be “outing” .

I can’t imagine Freddy giving birth in Sweden, because bringing change to UK law seems to me to be an integral part of the process.

Freddy's child will have a birth certificate if born in the UK. It will not have Freddy's preferred wording but it will get a birth certificate. They are of limited use anyway- I haven't seen mine for years. It's in a name no longer mine. Why do they always go for such hyperbole?

Why would the children face discrimination and abuse for having a birth certificate which accurately gives the name of their mother?

That's the really insane stuff about all this. The pretence that they're in danger and they need to conceal who they are.

Imagine if the entire gay rights movement had been about insisting on the need for homosexuals to be able to conceal that they were gay and preventing them from ever being outed?

They're role-playing a bizarro-world version of gay rights. A really dumb one that tries to avoid acceptance.

So Sweden records trans men who give birth as fathers? What a travesty for their children.

Why would the children face discrimination and abuse for having a birth certificate which accurately gives the name of their mother?

SJ's new baby sibling will soon face the same situation as SJ: no birth certificate, or one that opens them up to discrimination and abuse later in life, because it inaccurately lists Freddy as their 'mother'.

EH? Abuse from who? Who sees your birth certificate apart from government officials? What a load of nonsense.

Freddy has a crowdfunder and Mermaids are supporting Freddy.

twitter.com/mermaids_gender/status/1450129120000679941?s=21

Isn't using suicide as a threat exactly what the Samaritans say should not be done?

Interesting new Vice video by Freddy.

I noticed the comments have exploded since I watched it yesterday with overwhelmingly positive responses from what was initially quite critical. At first many seemed to be from the US effectively saying stop complaining, you have free healthcare, others who were U.K. based said their were waiting times for all kinds of treatment, one said he couldn't get a dentist appointment.

Since then it's gone the other way, like a call has gone out to drown the very mild criticism.

Christine Burns features, saying something like "this is who we are" but I think it's more about who they aren't.

Disturbingly it focuses fairly significantly on a young person who took their own life and uses the death of this person as an example of what happens why someone is on the waiting list. It ends in tears so is suitably emotional in approach.

Ah, sorry I see EdgeOfACoin and Ekofisk got there before me.

The Brexit Withdrawal Agreement and the UK-EU Trade Agreement contain commitments that the UK will remain a party to the European Court of Human Rights.

‘Gestational parent’

Why should any legal document use a euphemism? The English language already has a perfectly good word for this - ‘mother’.

Do we really have that many definitions of mother?

As with most highly used words ‘mother’ can have many definitions. That doesn’t mean that it can’t also be used in a very specific sense, or that that specific sense undermines all other definitions.

On a birth certificate ‘mother’ simply identifies who gave birth.

Freddy has a very strange understanding of language.

This is interesting. There are so many things in UK & other European countries law that are based on sex not gender. If the European Court of Human Rights found in favour of Freddie, it would cause some real issues across the continent. Courts (higher courts) are mindful of one groups effects on another and this might (so long as Freddie raises enough cash) show that conflict and how in Freddies case the very few transpeople would cause real issues in Europe. The court would be unlikely (my thoughts) to throw Europe into chaos for something that, on the face of it, doesn't seem to be a human right failing?

The counter argument, I think, if the EHRC were to push the U.K. it would result in GRA reform though wouldn't it?

We have a law which settles this and this govt have specifically said how they will not change it but they will lower they fee and provide more healthcare which they have actioned after a full public consultation so I think this is quite easily defend from the current position and law.

But I'm not a lawyer and there's ILGA to worry about.

gestational parent

baby: googoo gege
xyz: aww, look, she's trying to say gestation parent!