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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Transgender man, 34, loses legal battle to be named as the father on his child's birth certificate as Supreme Court refuses to hear his case"

460 replies

Malahaha · 16/11/2020 14:24

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8953783/Transgender-man-34-loses-legal-battle-named-father-childs-birth-certificate.html

Don't know if this was already posted but it's a glimmer of hope that soe judges have their heads screwed on tightly.

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Runningjump · 16/11/2020 15:44

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CoolYourBeansMySon · 16/11/2020 15:43

Is there any procedure to revoke a GRC?

Apparently not.

BlueCatRedCat · 16/11/2020 15:36

@BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted

Freddy McConnell was gloating recently on Twitter about “imminent developments”. I see now what Freddy was referring to. I’m glad Freddy’s appeal has failed. I am still discombobulated about how a person could be so dysphoric about their birth-sex and go onto become pregnant only days after getting their GRCert. I wonder who’s been paying for all this very costly legal action?
Surely the statutory declarations this person would have had to sign in order to get a GRC are provably false? Is there any procedure to revoke a GRC? No wonder TRAs want people to believe that men can get pregnant and give birth. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
nauticant · 16/11/2020 15:26

I want society to work so that, assuming the information is available, if a child asks "who is my mother? who is my father?" they can be told the truth. The idea of gaslighting a child over such a fundamental part of their identity is abhorrent.

JuliaJohnston · 16/11/2020 15:25

Men do not get pregnant, and women do not rape.

JuliaJohnston · 16/11/2020 15:25

@diddl

So he was legally a man at the time of giving birth?

Perhaps that shouldn't have been possible given that he was pregnant & not living as a man?

A GRC should be rescinded immediately on either the owner becoming pregnant or perpetrating a sexual assault. It's a scandal that it isn't so.
diddl · 16/11/2020 15:21

So he was legally a man at the time of giving birth?

Perhaps that shouldn't have been possible given that he was pregnant & not living as a man?

JuliaJohnston · 16/11/2020 15:21

I feel equally strongly about both, to be honest.

FractionalGains · 16/11/2020 15:08

I’m pleased by this result, though I feel less strongly about Freddy (having done the pregnancy and risked his body) being referred to as Father than I would about someone who merely provided sperm being referred to as Mother.

I actually wouldn’t have a problem with the default being father and mother but the option for someone to apply to be listed as ‘parent’. But I think father and mother should retain the meanings they have always had when it comes to procreation being recorded on a birth certificate.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/11/2020 15:02

Speaking at the beginning of the hearing, solicitor Scott Halliday, a family litigation specialist based at law firm Irwin Mitchell, urged the Appeal Court judges to be on the 'right side of history'.

Pretty sure "right side of history" isn't a valid legal argument Hmm

JuliaJohnston · 16/11/2020 15:01

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I don't think it's fair to entirely blame Freddie for this. They is obviously being "supported" behind the scenes in their strategic litigation.
If they're a willing puppet some element of blame still attaches, I'm afraid.
laudemio · 16/11/2020 15:00

I would not support being called parent 1 or parent 2, I'm surprised poster's say they would? What am I missing?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/11/2020 15:00

I don't think it's fair to entirely blame Freddie for this. They is obviously being "supported" behind the scenes in their strategic litigation.

JuliaJohnston · 16/11/2020 14:59

Some people might think they have been manipulated by people and organisations that don’t have Freddie’s well being as a primary aim.
This; absolutely.

aliasundercover · 16/11/2020 14:57

All the way to the supreme court - what a waste of time and effort.

Somebody should have sat Freddy McConnell down and told Freddy to stop being a pillock, but of course everyone Freddy knows will have been doing the acceptance and confirmation stuff, so there was nobody to tell Freddy the truth.

MichelleofzeResistance · 16/11/2020 14:56

Good. The limits of a person's absolute right to define themselves in their subjectively chosen way has to be at the boundaries of other people's objective reality.

viques · 16/11/2020 14:55

Freddie has had some very poor advice, either that or they are so self fixated that the rest of the world passes them by. Some people might think they have been manipulated by people and organisations that don’t have Freddie’s well being as a primary aim.

Applying to a fertility clinics only days after signing a legal document confirming that they intend to live as a man (so presumably had stopped taking testosterone for some time before the GRC application)

Demanding anonymity in their court cases despite cooperating with a very identifying documentary that even made it clear where they live.

I am pleased the court has made this decision. I watched the documentary and it seemed to me then that Freddie had a lot of unresolved issues which I hope they are getting proper support for.

Scout2016 · 16/11/2020 14:55

I'm pleased about this. It's the child's document, not the parents. It should be legally factually accurate.

persistentwoman · 16/11/2020 14:54

It's grim isn't it ThinEndOfTheWedge. "Gestational parent, birthers, breeders"
Of course, once they've dehumanised women one can only wonder what will happen to childhood and children? I suspect we're already seeing the beginning of it with the rights of children to grow, develop and struggle with puberty in a safe supported environment already being challenged by some adult groups.

nauticant · 16/11/2020 14:51

So, is it the European Court of Human Rights next?

JuliaJohnston · 16/11/2020 14:51

Gestational parent’ instead of mother anyone....?!

Looking for takers...

Don't even joke about it; there'll be plenty...

JuliaJohnston · 16/11/2020 14:49

Thank Christ.

Quillink · 16/11/2020 14:49

Good. I think that children have the right to know who gave birth to them and who their birth fathers are.

nauticant · 16/11/2020 14:49

Moreover, we do not have evidence before this court as to how other members of society would feel if they were no longer to be referred to on their child's birth certificate as a mother or a father but simply as 'Parent 1' and 'Parent 2'

The changes in the way society works requested by the trans person have to be balanced by the interests and wishes of the rest of the people in society. It's been a long time coming. It's amazing that this reasoning went so badly out of fashion.

ThinEndOfTheWedge · 16/11/2020 14:48

They could ask them. I'd support that in a heartbeat.

Definitely

The legislative scheme of the Gender Recognition Act (GRA) required Mr McConnell to be registered as the mother of YY, rather than the father, parent or gestational parent.

‘Gestational parent’ instead of mother anyone....?!

Looking for takers...

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