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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Statue to honour Wollstonecraft

719 replies

MedusasBadHairDay · 10/11/2020 01:08

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/nov/10/mary-wollstonecraft-finally-honoured-with-statue-after-200-years

It's a naked woman..

Currently reading A Vindication of the Rights of Woman for an OU course, and - unless the tone changes dramatically in the second half of it - I'm not seeing how an idealised nude is the right statue to convey anything about her?

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Thingybob · 13/11/2020 10:51

@TinselAngel

Karl Marx's willy! GrinGrinGrin
Well done Julia, that image will have won over the vast majority of viewers
TinselAngel · 13/11/2020 10:43

Karl Marx's willy! GrinGrinGrin

just5morepeas · 13/11/2020 10:40

Just watched the chat about this on Jeremy Vine and Julia Long was brilliant! I was really happy with the discussion and the points put across were so great and well made.

littlbrowndog · 13/11/2020 10:37

Yeah she bored her right off 😂😂😂🔥🔥🔥🔥

TinselAngel · 13/11/2020 10:35

Loving Julia dismissing the Lib Fem panellist's arguments.

littlbrowndog · 13/11/2020 10:34

She was great. Also she is local and said she had donated

Mollyollydolly · 13/11/2020 10:29

Julia Long is a legend.

littlbrowndog · 13/11/2020 10:26

Oh heck. Julia can’t hear vine

TinselAngel · 13/11/2020 10:08

Julia Long is going to be on Jeremy Vine's show on Channel 5 in a minute, talking about this.

Gingernaut · 13/11/2020 09:32

I've donated to the Crowdfunder and I'm still angry about 'The Blob'

If it doesn't depict or represent MW and isn't meant to depict or represent her life or work, WHY does it have her name on it at all??

DidoLamenting · 13/11/2020 09:31

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

I always liked this one
A Judith and Holofernes. Husband and I have a little game at art galleries of counting how many Judith and Holofernes , Salome and John the Baptists, Susanna and the Elders and St. Sebastians we spot.
ThatIsNotMyUsername · 13/11/2020 08:02

I always liked this one

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 13/11/2020 07:58

I much prefer this statue of Medusa carrying the head of Perseus. A wronged woman turning the tables on her attackers!

news.artnet.com/art-world/medusa-courthouse-statue-1914971

Malahaha · 13/11/2020 07:09

@BasiliskStare

Honestly I think the Maggie Hambling one ( & I can see why they gave a very forthright woman the commission) just looks like something a GCSE class would have come up with ( with funding). As it is for Mary W not of her - I can see the point it may engender debate . But for how long & then what we are left with is - well - that.

No offence to talented teenage artists is meant by this post - In truth I reckon they could have done better , acquainted somewhat with her works. Seriously no offence meant to teenage artists.

I'm not so sure. For a few years, I had a job coaching artists-to-be at the Arts faculty of Brighton University. I was sometimes horrified with what they came up with, in their desire to be edgy. And the girls were the worst. It was as if they were all falling over each other in their desire to break taboos: knickers on display with blood-stained crotches, stuff with their own poo -- some of it really disgusting, and all very personal. This was in the years 2004-2006 so not that long ago.
Malahaha · 13/11/2020 07:03

@msflibble

I'm angry about this utter shit on so many levels. Why does MW have to represent "Everywoman" anyway? She wasn't everywoman, she was herself, and she deserves to have a commemoration that doesn't reduce her to some banal waifish pornstar-like figure and instead focuses on her specific achievements and talents. We don't see male public figures getting reduced to bland, hackneyed tropes of "everyman", they are allowed to be portrayed warts and all, in all their complexity. And anyway, if Hambling was going to design an Everywoman, that's nothing like the average woman. The female people I know who look similar are generally either adolescents or have eating disorders. Hambling even said it's not a statue of Wollstonecraft, it's just a statue for her. Well what's the fucking point of that then? The project was supposed to even up the amount of female public figures depicted in statuary and it's not even doing that because that's not even supposed to be MW herself. The idea that this represents a break from tradition is laughable, sculptors have been making models of idealised women with their tits out for thousands of years. Venus de Milo anyone? The whole thing is a fucking joke, I hope it gets vandalised beyond repair, preferably melted with a flamethrower into a silvery puddle, and replaced with something that gives MW the recognition and dignity her legacy deserves.
This. Even though I'm not British and don't live in the UK I am still so annoyed by the whole thing. "Everywoman" is every woman; the brief was to commemorate HER and her achievements. We have "everywoman" around us all the time, we don't need to be commemorated as some really fit young thing with a broccoli bush! I am 69 and don't want t body like that. Even though I'd like to lose a 3-5 kilos for comfort, I have the body of a grandmother and have absolutely no desire to be young again, or to even look young again -- I am very happy to be freed from the male gaze. How dare she think she is representing us all with that monstrosity? The ego behind it is mind-boggling.

While we regret having to make this clear, we very clearly want to state that this is an explicitly trans-inclusive project. We state this as we note that frequently a nude female form is taken as a canvas for promoting trans-exclusionary arguments about what constitutes being a ‘woman’; we do not wish to promote these dog-whistles in any way. We as such will not accept any work for this project that promotes trans-exclusionary arguments.

What bollocks. So they want yet another statue of a man.

nepeta · 13/11/2020 05:57

That Ana Valens has a platform while the trans activists are doing their utmost to strip all gender critical women of any right to speak tells me everything I need to know about this movement and its acceptance among the wokerati.

BasiliskStare · 13/11/2020 05:39

Honestly I think the Maggie Hambling one ( & I can see why they gave a very forthright woman the commission) just looks like something a GCSE class would have come up with ( with funding). As it is for Mary W not of her - I can see the point it may engender debate . But for how long & then what we are left with is - well - that.

No offence to talented teenage artists is meant by this post - In truth I reckon they could have done better , acquainted somewhat with her works. Seriously no offence meant to teenage artists.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/11/2020 00:37

I really like the Jennings statue.

PotholeParadies · 13/11/2020 00:32

Precisely.

If you'd prefer to only donate to a fund with an expectation that it will be decided where the money should go later, subject to a selection process, that's not unreasonable. But it's not a fundraising model that works with crowdfunders where T&Cs can mean you're supposed to have a defined goal and you have to raise all the money within x days.

This time, let it be clear and above board, with all donors being fully cognizant of what they're funding. Definitely a statue of Mary (not for!), looking like this, costing this, by Martin Jennings.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/11/2020 00:29

a man who presented as a woman in the later part of his life, in her list of exceptional women.

It sounds like he had some sort of intersex condition from the contemporary descriptions after his death.

Escapeplanning · 13/11/2020 00:18

It's the better of the two and from the first hand report upthread the committee knew but chose the politically correct and edgy option against their own better judgement. That's the great and the good for you huh
I'm for it and will donate.

Strike while the iron is hot and before the whole thing gets dragged into a mass of competing interests.

PotholeParadies · 13/11/2020 00:07

140k, are they really that much. And why Malcolm, it should be thrown open again and bids requested. Sorry I will not donate when someone has already decided who gets the commission.

Seems fair enough- it's your money!

But I'd think quite a lot of people wouldn't be willing to donate if they didn't know who would get the commission. That's the exact circumstances that led to this disaster- ten years of fundraising without any knowledge what it would pay, then the committee decided where to bestow the money.

I certainly would be hesitant to donate to a campaign structured in that way now.

DidoLamenting · 12/11/2020 23:56

140k, are they really that much. And why Malcolm, it should be thrown open again and bids requested. Sorry I will not donate when someone has already decided who gets the commission

It's up to the person who has set up the crowdfunder how she wants to run it.

There were only 2 entrants last time so not sure "throwing it open" is much of an option.

justasking111 · 12/11/2020 23:44

[quote HecatesCats]There is a crowdfunder for a new statue of Mary Wollstonecraft:

www.crowdfunder.co.uk/statue-for-mary-wollstonecraft[/quote]
140k, are they really that much. And why Malcolm, it should be thrown open again and bids requested. Sorry I will not donate when someone has already decided who gets the commission.

PotholeParadies · 12/11/2020 23:41

I think their attempt to make a safe decision backfired. The past controversary over picking a male sculptor wouldn't have revived on this scale. People don't actually check the sculptor's name on public art. It would have been occasionally the subject of acerbic remarks from women analysing female representation in the artistic professions, and that's about it. The ordinary woman on the street wouldn't be willing to take up the pitchforks for that.

A nude statue for an 18th century wimen's rights philosopher, though? Even if you'd never heard of A Vindication of the Rights of Women before this week, you can find that statue strongly distasteful.