Helen Lewis - Ubisoft

You'd think the Spectator commentators would know what happened between the Co-op and Andrew Neil!

The comments never load for me which is probably for the best!

Excellent article from Nick Cohen, but what is it with the people who comment btl on Spectator articles? Why are they all so stupid? They seem to think that these are all "left on left" arguments or that people like Lewis and Cohen have brought it upon themselves - in what way, it's not specified.

I think the idea of women as a class having associated rights, and especially if they resist their erosion, is claimed by some as transphobic.

If you look at John Stuart Mill and how he regards when someone adversely impacts on someone else's rights that is where their actions should stop as the other person has rights too and have they have a right not to be adversely impinged upon. The 'self-regarding' actions and 'other-regarding' actions. Self regarding actions are those is which only involves or impacts on yourself. Whether that is adverse or otherwise is your own business. When it is adversely impacts on someone else, then it ceases to be just be your own business and you are not in the sphere of your rights any longer. You have stepped over a line into someone else's space.

When I was on twitter, I had an excellent thread bookmarked from a Geman Holocaust historian, who said he had only seen the claims that trans people were among the first to be targeted by the nazis coming from Americans. In fact he wiped the floor with an American 'Queer Historian', as I recall. Wish I could remember his @

Helen's bit in the game was a "podcast" on a radio talking about fascism, so that'll be why TRAs are coming out with all this hyperbolic crap about how actually, she's the fascist.

Nick Cohen has written in the Spectator about this

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-cowardice-of-an-anti-fascist-video-game-company

Ian Dunt notably hasn't issued a grovelling retraction.

I guess years in the Brexit trenches means he's used to vitriolic pile-ons. He's also ideologically very committed to free speech and open debate.

No one is denying that the Nazis persecuted gay people. They certainly did. However 'trans' wasn't much of a concept at the time. The Hirschfield Institute's remit was far broader than sexual reassignment. The fact that Hirschfield himself invented the term 'transsexual' (which to him encompassed intersex people and transvestites) shows how new it was.

I only mentioned this because I've seen certain activists co-opting the monstrous tragedy of the Holocaust for their cause, on Ian Dunt's thread.

I won't say any more because this is obviously a sensitive subject.

Oh, that's a new one - accusing feminists of being Holocaust deniers.

Can we return to the topic of the thread please ?

No-one is centering anyone, trans people simply don't want their history and the persecution that took place in Nazi Germany to be denied. The attack on the Hirschfeld Institute marked the beginning of the Nazi campaign against LGBT people and as such is significant. As were the attempts to wipe out any scientific record of trans people's existence. To try and pretend atrocities against those accused of sexual inversion didn't really happen, or were just a footnote in Nazi history, or only happened to gender conforming gay men, reveals elements of the GC movement to be deeply sinister. Why would you want to deny this? What's in it for you, unless you want to see it happen again? Because that's the motivation behind most of those who deny aspects of the holocaust.

Lewis is a very careful communicator and moderate in her views on this issue. It's beyond ridiculous she's been removed.

According to magnus-hirschfeld.de/ :

For Berlin residents, it became known as an institution providing counselling and treatment for “physical and psychological sexual disorders” as well as, in particular, for “sexual transitions”, Hirschfeld’s term for homosexuals, transvestites and hermaphrodites.

'Trans people' weren't in focus at the time and were barely a concept. Certainly the Nazis hated what they saw as 'degenerates' but that covered a whole range of lifestyles. The Hirschfeld Institute was a footnote at best in Nazi history. TRAs really need to stop centering their cause in everything.

Ok so they asked for evidence that she was transphobic and they’ve posted this link from her article against self Id. Just for once I wish someone would ask them to further EXPLAIN what is actually transphobic about her statement. Helen says something like “this gender id law makes a woman into a feeling in someone’s mind.” Right well ... isn’t that true? Isn’t this what we’ve been told? That’s it’s all about feelings and self validation? I’m just getting very fed up of mere disagreement being castigated as bigotry.

I thoroughly enjoyed Helen Lewis's 'Difficult Women' - she's a good writer and speaker.
It's notable that no matter what field it is, men take every possible opportunity to not only slur and criticise women for having the temerity to speak out, but to deliberately misrepresent what we say.

Yes, there was a sexology clinic that had its records destroyed. Among those records were studies of cross-dressers.

The Hirschfeld Institute provided trans healthcare, had trans staff members and was perhaps the only library of research into trans people. Whilst it was being attacked Goering gave a speech to over 40,000 people and an estimated 20,000 books and countless more research papers and personal health records were burnt. The Nazis also seized the clinic's list of names and addresses which would have included their trans patients. Hirschfeld, who Hitler himself had reportedly called the most dangerous Jew in Germany, was forced into exile, and the Institute director was sent to a concentration camp. It is not known but suspected by the details gathered in this raid were used to round up gay men and trans people.

Whilst there may well have been crossdressing and drag shows in the military, as was common in many countries at the time, crossdressing was forbidden under Paragraph 183 of Nazi rules. There have been 175 records uncovered in which crossdressing was used as part of a prosecution.

Trans women were not considered by the Nazis to be seperate from gay men, and in fact their theories of sexual inversion really depended on the idea that to be gay was to be feminine, that essentially homosexuality was a feminine corruption of the male body. It is beyond credible doubt that trans people were prosected amongst the estimated 50,000 LGBT people imprisoned or sent to camps.

I was watching a documentary about the Pepe the Frog meme, it came from a pretty innocuous cartoon strip a American college kid had made about him and his room mates and then got twisted into the nasty creation it is now by gamers and users of 4Chan. It was really interesting actually, but it just showed these grown men living in their mum's basements and have such a tenuous link to the real world they are quite self hating and project that onto each other and then the outside world. Very scary.

Bought her book in solidarity. The gaming community is toxic to the core.

I'd be interested to know who started the pile-on that got her removed. Was the real reason to try and silence the game itself? I see they're also going for Ian Dunt now.

NotTerfNorCis There is nothing that won't be appropriated.

Manderleyagain I thought so, I was just amazed at how people will make any excuse for the abuse of women online, sickening really. I'm not on Twitter anymore and I feel like this is one of the only online spaces that women can share.

The latest yarn being spread - the books burned by Nazis were all about trans people.

I've studied this part of history at university and I can tell you that 'trans' was never mentioned. 'Decadent art' covered many things, but transgenderism was barely known.

Yes, there was a sexology clinic that had its records destroyed. Among those records were studies of cross-dressers.

But in the scheme of things this was a tiny event. The Nazis targeted Jewish people, the disabled, the Roma, gays, and political dissidents... they didn't specifically target trans people because there was no concept of trans people.

In fact cross-dressing was common in the Wehrmacht.

I always find it interesting when men get a taste of this sort of thing (as Ian Dunt is now). Interestingly I spotted a woke acquaintance of mine on another social media site protesting the cancellation, but not seen him speak up at all on any gender / free speech issues in the past.

DrDavidBanner yes that was her. A high follower count gamer person, a huge pile one, lots of violent imagery. Has forgotten and I can't remember what started it.

Her husband who is the guardian digital editor (didn’t realise that) is calling out Ubisoft on twitter & Sean ingle also from the guardian offering solidarity. No doubt they’ll both be cancelled too right??