Just read Abigail Shrier’s Book

Winesalot - that sounds so worrying.

I've noticed more and more parents on here saying their 11, 12, 13yo has come out as gay/bi/lesbian and thats always my first though too.

While I am not concerned if my daughter is a lesbian or bi, I am concerned about her choosing this to fit in rather than coming to this conclusion through allowing her attractions to develop. She decided at 11 or 12 with a group of her friends at the same time after being told she must be a lesbian by bullies because she didn’t want to talk about boys and kissing.

I have heard other friends say it had become a thing at their daughter’s school too. She thought it was about having the ‘coming out’ effect. Not to say that many of these girls are not lesbian or bisexual but it does seem to be mixed in with other issues at a very early stage.

What’s the potential harm?

Well at 14, my daughter is now confessed feeling concerned that she might be asexual, not lesbian at all. It is adding to her poor mental health that she should be feeling this or that and she is not. This is despite my repeated advice that is fine either way, that she hasn’t felt that attraction to someone in real life yet and just let things take their time. She will find out that she is hetero/bi/homo/a sexual eventually and it will be all fine by us.

There is pressure to ‘be’ something, to belong to a group.

I tried so hard when she was a tween to tell her that sometimes taking on labels means we feel that we must fit that label rather than being free to be the person we are. But she was desperate to fit in and has told me that labels help her belong.

This is my concern about these early announcements at 11/12, it is when it is contributing to feeling that there is something wrong with them if they don’t strictly fit the label.

It’s not about being gay, it’s about the age these kids are declaring their sexuality because the internet is teaching them it is fashionable and desirable to be talking about their sexual preferences.

You said that so much better than me. This is what concerns me. My clubbing days were in the 90's when it was all about "lipstick lesbians", all performance to turn on the boys and not at all helpful to actual lesbians I was friends with. This feels very similar, but these children are way to young to understand the implications of their behaviour.

wanda

We have also seen it on twitter, adults being told that pan is the only acceptable sexuality.

Its not enough to have girls taught that being a lesbian means accepting certain body parts.

Now children are being told that from the beginning. We need to ask who that benefits.

I notice we seem not to be allowed to talk about groups of girls in schools identifying as trans en mass and the harm being caused to them

Very sinister indeed.

It comes to something when you can't talk about genuine concerns for your child on a parenting site.

She’s never kissed a boy or a girl.

I've noticed more and more parents on here saying their 11, 12, 13yo has come out as gay/bi/lesbian and thats always my first though too. I know most people just know but its also an age where there's a lot of confusion about sexuality, I know I had very strong girl crushes but after going through puberty I am definitely heterosexual.

It's incredible that a site specifically set up for parents to discuss their parenting concerns does not allow parents to discuss the major concern currently damaging their children.

Mumsnut

It really is a concern. And it is being minimized by so many who can’t see the problem. Who believe that is phobic to discuss it on MN.

It is also the lack of interest in day to day lives of their friends outside of that issue.

I notice we seem not to be allowed to talk about groups of girls in schools identifying as trans en mass and the harm being caused to them

I can't help but assume that this is because it highlights the disparate nature of the groups under the 'Trans umbrella'. Concerns about social contagion in a vulnerable group undermine claims that this is a rainbow coloured sparkly coalition of people finding their 'true selves'.

Since then she’s been telling everyone who will listen that she is “pan"

Oh jeez..poor girl.
Trouble is pan is kinda sold as the best most inclusive sexuality.. its not as harmless as it sounds .

I mean adults sure knock yourself out you have learnt boundries consent etc presumably but kids...

@GettingUntrapped they aren't identifying as gay, when a lot of them probably are gay, that's part of the issue!

So homophobic is the society we live in that it's more acceptable for a young girl to say she's a boy that to say she is a lesbian. And then undergo permanent changes to her body which could result in infertility.

Homophobia was cited in the cases at the tavi for reasons behind wanting to transition.

What is the reason for so many girls identifying as gay or trans? I hope it's okay to ask.

It’s stupid to imply that anyone’s daughter is a fair weather friend for not going along with it

It is back to the idea that women and girls are merely support persons; they exist to help others.

Winesalot, I could have written your posts. I am
Considering sending a copy of the is book to the head of my daughter’s school

The worry is: the people who need to read this book, will not read this book. Teachers, doctors, mental health professionals, uni staff at all levels, need to read this. How can this just be ignored-- not ignored even, rather "affirmed" by all?

I'm a teacher and I've read it and I've read Debra Soh's

I'm hugely concerned about what I'm seeing in schools

Recently finished AS's book. It tells it like it is, while remaining "kind". She knows what is happening to girls is wrong and that institutions, at every level, are failing girls and women.

The worry is: the people who need to read this book, will not read this book. Teachers, doctors, mental health professionals, uni staff at all levels, need to read this. How can this just be ignored-- not ignored even, rather "affirmed" by all?

The End of Gender by Debra Soh is an excellent read too.

Looking forward to reading it. I have ordered it from my local independent bookshop who are sourcing it from USA as it could not be obtained here. It will cost quite a lot more than from Amazon but I refuse to give them my business on this. Likewise, when I enquired in Waterstones the lady searched on the computer, paused, lowered her glasses and gave me a hard stare before saying they did not stock it but could get it for me.

I posted on the other thread and next time I looked it had been zapped- I brought up this book....is that why it got deleted?

MN has been captured imvho. Gradually less and less discussion around these matters is being tolerated, other contentious political concepts too and I am told you're banned without even a warning or email these days if you cross the line. Definitely a change in policy and far less chances given.

are all crying and weeping at how marginalised they are.

That is very much a teen thing. Teenagers are never understood and parents know nothing. Kevin anyone? Part of being a teenager is about finding your own tribe away from parents. Which is why they are so vulnerable to this.