Just read Abigail Shrier’s Book

My stepdaughter plays Roblox and there a game on there called Adopt Me - this is the wiki entry for it:
Adopt Me! is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game on the gaming platform Roblox. The original focus of the game wass a role-play wherein players pretend to be either parents adopting a child, or children getting adopted, but as the game was developed further, its focus shifted to being about adopting and caring for a variety of different virtual pets, who can be traded with other players.[2] As of October 2020, the game had been played upwards of fourteen billion times.[3] DreamCraft, the independent studio behind the game employs roughly 30 people, and has accumulated a total of $16 million dollars in revenue, mostly from microtransactions.[4][5] The game was averaging 600,000 concurrent players as of June 2020, making it the most popular game on Roblox.[2]

So here’s an issue. I noticed a lot of her gaming revolves around trying to have relationships with other children. Quite often these kids have their sexuality advertised in their profiles. Apparently polysexual, pansexual etc are all there and very common.
The comment earlier about incest play and blood play etc - I wonder if it’s starting in games like this as well as incest now being a massive thing in porn. The kids talk about being depressed a lot too which leads me to think that the self harm talk is happening in game also.

That's awful Winesalot Of course, it is a safeguarding matter as there's a child there who's being exposed to age inappropriate material.

I do worry that there's a massive naivety in schools who have been "Stonewalled'. They've been persuaded by this adult group that they should have 'LGBT groups" to support LGBT children. However children they (and the school) need boundaries. Creating groups of mixed age children to discuss issues relating to sexuality is a potential time bomb.

Schools have a clear purpose - learning and enabling children's social and emotional development. They're not venues for LGBT social groups for children. Schools are places where children see themselves as learners and social beings - part of large groups of different children learning to get on - not being siphoned off into narrow 'interest' groups. I'm probably not explaining this very well but year 7 children (just out of primary school) discussing sexuality with year 11 pupils is not appropriate. The focus of mixed age groups should be on sport, music etc - not discussing sexuality.
Yet this well established boundary for children is another one being eroded by adult groups. And it results in schools being unable to protect children from age inappropriate issues if they're being 'advised' in this way. And children will not internalise age appropriate boundaries if 'anything goes'.

It is horrific. I haven’t told my daughter I read it but casually pointed out that I read on the news that there was an increase in teens involved with csa and clarified with her that teens sending this stuff could be in trouble a) they are spreading csa which is a crime but also b) often are groomed themselves. She looked even more horrified to realize that she has been exposed without any thought by this friend.

That's horrific. Children are so vulnerable. Then things like the NSPCC incidents terrify me because it means that safeguarding organisations themselves are now a threat.

Jesus Christ

When yo read that, no wonder they're all identifying as NB and asexual, poor kids.

I also find it worrying that this seems to be their only focus. Do you think this is largely a girl thing or just very recent. My son is 20 and always had a wide range of interests and friends and a firm grip on who he is, but I think being involved in team sport and the tools that gave him helped him a lot through the normal puberty wobbles.

I'm also quite chilled by the idea that children are now 'exploring gender' and sexuality

I have seen some csa being spread by one of the NB teens. It was a story ‘created’ with a new friend they made on discord who was trans. It involved blood play, incest and familial orgy. In my mind, this is not something a teenage girl would ever dream up by themselves. So, I believe they were groomed and the girl spread it to her friends who were not expecting it and were horrified to read it.

But she was desperate to fit in and has told me that labels help her belong.

I've heard this from a lot of young people too. They feel that labels give them an identity and help them to know how to interact and conduct themselves - there's rules and examples to follow. It's like there's this pressure on them to know who they are as soon as possible because that makes them more "authentic".

I'm also quite chilled by the idea that children are now 'exploring gender' and sexuality, and also by the increasing mainstream tolerance of paedophilia. I feel the two things create an intersection where CSA is less safeguarded against than it has been since the chid protection laws were first brought in.

The other thread being deleted is very worrying.

And you can only win accolades in the group by pushing the doctrine further. Simply repeating it is easy work, fit only for followers not leaders. To be recognised as extremely special the members must performatively exclude others, and performatively expand the ideology.

[quote Wandawomble]@napody
You are right, sorry I worded that clumsily and probably misquoted the good comment on the other deleted thread. Add your comment to my thing I was trying to say 😂

The fact they are girls is creating an oppressive structure from the boys in their classes as they are being exposed to porn via the boys etc as just a start along with all the other things we know.[/quote]
Don't apologise I was pretty sure I was preaching to the converted!
It is a really interesting point though.... it absolutely does seem to be white middle class girls primarily. Their oppression is invisible since it's not acceptable to point out that females are still oppressed. Maybe it's a relief to them be able to speak about being oppressed, even if they have to attribute it to something else?

Excellent point MondayYogurt . Yet none of our institutions (including child safeguarding institutions) appear able to see this, so strong are the sanctions for speaking up for the safety of girls

For those who haven't read Abigail Shrier's book, here's a really interesting podcast that she made with Jo Rogan. It's such a good listen:

It's QAnon for children.
Repetition of basic ideas, a subject that can never truly be finished or encapsulated and is always changing and developing, an in-group that makes you feel special and clever while simultaneously threatening you with expulsion and severe consequences. And it can only truly thrive online, away from criticism.

Unfortunately my stand against social media crumbled in lockdown as it was the means by which teenagers were staying in contact with friends.

I did have a conversation about needing to critically assess information presented online. And if people wave scientitic sounding papers then you need to look to see if they really do back up their statements.

I’ve got the book too. My DD isnt a teen but from teenaged relatives I’ve heard that there are “trans boys” in their schools.
I’ve met several “trans boys” in the course of my job. All were struggling with MH and were nothing like the vocal TRAs online

Shrier notes how today’s youth are having fewer romantic/sexual encounters. They seem to talk about it online but aren’t experimenting in the same way teens used to. At 13 I’d kissed a few boys, gone on double dates but then we weren’t cooped up indoors on devices
If you watch The Social Dilemma they recommend no social media until 16. Without social media would “trans” have even happened?!

I think this is really important from Winesalot upthread:
Apparently, their entire conversations revolve around their lesbian identity and their gender identity. It is very self absorbed. They don’t discuss movies, TV shows, books unless it is about a LGBT character (so no discussion on neutral issues like GBBO then). I don’t think my daughter even knows whether her friends have siblings. They don’t even discuss current affairs or major world events unless it stays in the LGBT parameters and then it is always pro- gender ideology. They certainly discuss whether they have been misgendered or if they perceive someone as being homophobic. I can see my daughter starting to pull back from interacting with some of them as they are too intense for her own mental health

Isn't this similar to girls with eating disorders with the pro ana sites and spending hours online being influenced by all sorts of randoms? Equally girls and boys being radicalised online? Both groups absorb themselves in an ideology that effectively removes them from the influence of their parents and families and ultimately affects and changes their lives. Incredible how easily adults spot what is happening to these groups of vulnerable children yet are reluctant to even ask the question as to whether this group of ROGD girls might also being influenced in a similar manner? We must talk about this and question how and why this is happening.

Yes, that too. It's a horror show really and I can't see how we can stop it. It's too far gone. I hate saying that but I have been active on this for five years and it's just steadily grown. It feels unstoppable.

I was thinking more about who benefits from encouraging sexuality, that by its very nature is exclusionary, to be "inclusive "

How, kids being told that every sexuality can include those with a certain appendage, is inclusive and progressive ..

Now children are being told that from the beginning. We need to ask who that benefits.

Well when it's "children born in the wrong body who need support" then it becomes less about the autogynephilic men this is all really about, who are sexually aroused by wearing women's clothing and underwear and pretending to be lesbians. There's not masses of support for them in the mainstream. Make it about vulnerable, unhappy, suicidal kids though and who is going to argue with that?

She decided at 11 or 12 with a group of her friends at the same time after being told she must be a lesbian by bullies because she didn’t want to talk about boys and kissing.

Exactly, when I was that age boys my own age were revolting and older boys were terrifying, but as a child of the 80s I was able to discover my sexuality at my own pace.

I'm sorry about your daughter no wonder it affecting her mental health.

Thats really sad Kit19 I guess if so many young people don't feel able to properly discuss their confused feelings then this is where it leads them.
There's been a huge backlash from #MeToo, you only have to see the conversation around Johnny Depp as one example, and young people are so sexualised, even more so than when we were younger that I can see that is seems to be that straight girls have to be seen as up for anything or just check out from it.

Before the forced BJ incident she had only ever seen herself as straight

Friends daughter decided she was a lesbian when she was 15 after a horrible encounter when a boy tried to force her to give him a BJ.

3 years later having had no relationships with either sex she now thinks she’s bi

I don’t know if she’s lesbian, bi or straight but what I do think is that she was horribly frightened by an encounter with the opposite sex at a time when she was very vulnerable.

There is so much to be concerned about here - for parents, as parents, by parents, which is pretty much MN’s mission statement. DD1 has started to describe herself as a lesbian and we are all fully supportive of that, while trying not to make it the focus of her whole sense of self. But the status attributed to trans identities terrifies me. We’ve always discussed feminist ideas but I fear her either becoming absorbed under the trans umbrella, or finding herself increasingly isolated if she doesn’t ‘comply’.

Greektome

I am lucky in that my daughter talks to me about most things. Imagine if you were a teen who didn’t have that relationship with a parent and all you are getting is well intentioned but illformed advice from your friends. That is what is happening in this group.

I find it very disturbing how Mumsnet is silencing womens' voices. Absolutely abysmal.