advice on a male teacher at DDs school please

TBH, it's quite a good ,measured and reasonable way to deal with things like this.

All sorts could be happening here - from the early stirrings of the girl’s’ sexuality ( feelings from shame, embarrassment to excitement) to the guy being a pedo and all things in between.
Bottom line is teacher is idiot at best

• he needs SM to be private. OPneeds discussion with her Dd & support re her feelings & HT needs to ensure teacher SM private & monitor him - to protect all parties & be ready to take action if discomfort continues

Middle ground Dido. Middle ground

I see very little middle ground here. I see several posts more than happy to accept "makes them feel uncomfortable" as sufficient to damn him. I see posts suggesting that asking (or rather "demanding") what he has actually been doing are unreasonable.

'20:55Noideawottodo

Anyway, he teaches PE
That's enough for 99% of mumsnetters to want him sacked anyway.'

I don't understand.

I mean I don't make up 1% but my girls swimming teacher was awesome and also DD2 martial arts was all men teaching and they were lovely.

Their child school PE teacher tbh was a bit of a dick- only really wanted to teach football and clear preference for the boys (primary school). Also failed to stop doing bullying. And (and this is just me!) drove his sports car overly fast and very loud revving when the receptions were on the loose.... He was just a common or garden dick though.

Why do you think Mumsnetters don't like male sports teachers? Not heard that one before. Interested.

Can you expand on this at all?

You didn’t even bother to ask the girls why they felt he was creepy.

He's an idiot for a) using his real name for social media and b) having it unlocked.
The fact he can't see having a feed full of scantily clad young women when he works with young women is disturbing itself.

Any teachers I know don't use their traceable name. I have an old mate who is a teacher at my children's secondary. I haven't got him on social as I don't think it would be fair to him having to think about having a parent in his personal feed - pops up in the people you may know under a name he wouldn't be found under.

Middle ground Dido. Middle ground.

You don't assume that either he is a weirdo or he isn't.

You keep an open mind and leave the for door open for your DD to tell you if he does do anything. Anything which again could be brushed off 'oh he's just being friendly!' or whatever.

It worries me that so many people can't see any middle ground between 'sack the perve' and 'she fancies him and is a gossiping bitch'.

When it comes to children and people in authority you need to be careful. Keep communication lines open.

Because CSA starts with the subtle. And the children who aren't given the tools (talk to me) or are laughed at (you just fancy him!) or are dismissed (obviously he looks at you he's your PE teacher) are the ones who do not tell if anything starts to escalate. And by then. He's got them, hasn't he.

I can see zero harm in saying to DD. Thanks for telling me. Does sound a bit unusual. Let me know if anything else happens. Keep an eye out for your mates.

Who is harmed by that? No one.

Who is helped? Well if things are dodgy, children are helped.

When I was a girl we were taught to 'laugh off' inappropriate behaviour from men. That it was just how it was and not a big deal. Throw into the mix an authority figure, and parents who essentially say, I don't want to hear it. And that's go time for the small (ish) number of men who are predatory.

The situations where boys and female teachers are involved have a slightly different dynamic, that the boy should consider himself lucky. That also acts as a hard stop on talking to anyone who might be able to help.

But by the sounds of it (and I'm willing to be told I'm wrong) OP only told the head about the SM aspect and asked for his views on that. The only action taken is a reminder to tighten up privacy settings.

OP is focused on how unprofessional and inappropriate the teacher's social media behaviour is. She didn't even ask about how to deal with the girls feeling uncomfortable and how help them cope with their feelings.

My assumption was that if the OP was genuinely concerned about safeguarding she'd have spoken to the girls and gently encouraged them to describe the teacher's behaviour, what exactly was 'creepy' about him. There could be a real safeguarding concern there.

The fact that she's totally ignored this and immediately emailed the head about Instagram indicates to me a focus on penalising the teacher, not exploring the potentially genuine and valid concerns if the girls who have come to her.

If she thought there was a genuine safeguarding threat she be focussed on that, not on 'reporting' a few swimsuit images on Instagram.

It's her judgemental and petty reporting and absolute lack of interest in exploring whether the teacher has actually behaved inappropriately (a much bigger concern) that has raised criticism and doubts over her motivation.

Query- what happens when the girls get changed? We had female PE teachers (and one definitely did weird us out) but they always supervised changing or at least sat in the office within the changing room, which did have a window overlooking the changing room.

It's not unreasonable to dig down as to what he is doing that makes them feel uncomfortable. If he's actually doing something then it needs reporting so steps can be taken.

Surely anyone with an interest in safeguarding would want safeguarding concerns investigated?

20:44RealityNotEssentialism

'Okay, now that I would say was inappropriate. Very clearly so.'

Why?
He never did anything or said anything. He didn't leer.
Why is that so obviously inappropriate? I mean the man needs to get to the staff room or canteen...

???

Anyway, he teaches PE
That's enough for 99% of mumsnetters to want him sacked anyway.

And by the way , don't presume to speak for all women. You can count me out of your "we as women" team.

Oh, I do, Dido, don't worry.

'That is indeed harrowing and a really tragic horrible story. I don’t think it can in any way be likened to this though.'

Stories. A lot of children.

I specifically said it was an aside and not related to the op, it was just in the news the other day and I was thinking about it.

'I of course think that children should be believed if they disclose abuse'

But that's the end point. The starting point is. I don't feel comfy with teacher X. (Not for those children, who were extremely vulnerable indeed). But in general. These girls say teacher X makes them feel uncomfortable.

To say he's done nothing wrong, I expect you all just fancy him! Or have taken against him. Stop gossiping. He's teaching you pe fgs of course he'll look at you... What if a next small step is taken? Child knows that parents will dismiss.

To expect a child to listen to. It's nothing is nothing is nothing is nothing... And to keep bothering telling. Is not how it works.

That is how so much CSA has gone on through all the scandals with religious groups, TV personalities, etc. It is a slow process of grooming. And society is NOT on the side of the child. We like to think we are but we're not. As evidenced by scandal after scandal.

Of course the children who have parents who listen and say. Nothing can be done but thanks for telling me, I understand. Let me know if anything else happens. Are the children that will not be targeted. And what harm is done by saying that? Rather than. Oh you girls! You obviously fancy/ hate him. Where's the evidence. Etc. That makes them know to STFU. and then when something awful makes the news. Hand wringing all round.

There is nothing wrong with saying thanks for telling me etc.

The idea that they want to do a good man down... I mean none of us know. He might be lovely. He might not. FWR regs say. Ok DD thanks for telling me. Others say SHE'S TRYING TO GET HIM SACKED!

I mean. Think about these messages to children. There is a middle ground. Which surely is the best one to take?

When I was at school, I had a teacher who freaked me put with the way he looked at me. The deputy head said it was probably nothing, but I noticed the teacher’s behaviour improved straight away. It is always worth saying something.

He follows body builders on Instagram? Wouldn't bither me in the slightest.

Which is why dismissing this out of hand is not good

But accepting as gospel the statement from the girls with no further enquiry is fine?

Asking for more information is not "dismissing this out of hand"

If the op had evidence of any actual wrong doing, why is she focusing on Instagram followers?

And why is she leading this and not letting the parents of the child who is worried drive it forwards?

As women, we know when we are being made to feel uncomfortable by men. It's a skill we have to learn: Recognising The Male Gaze. Yes, possibly, some women and girls will get it wrong and feel uncomfortable with a totally nice and innocent man, but there is a Male Gaze,and yes it can feel threatening, even of the man didn't"do anything" explicitor criminal

Well perhaps women should all wear burqas and men should be banned from teaching girls.

And by the way , don't presume to speak for all women. You can count me out of your "we as women" team.

I find it alarming to see that anyone finds it alarming that posters are asking that the OP explains exactly what the man is doing that is making the girls feel uncomfortable.

One thing we should have learnt by now is that we have to be meticulous with safeguarding because if we are not, the damage that can be done is devastating. That doesn't mean assuming that the teacher in this case is a predator. But it does mean treating it as a safeguarding issue. Teachers have to have their SM private or have a student-friendly SM. If insta can't be made properly private then he shouldn't be on there. This is for his protection as well as the students' tbh.

I know it's not really fair and ideally students shouldn't look up their teachers online, but in reality they do, and it can cause all sorts of problems. I teach adults and they admit to looking me up online. I'm not on any social media but if I was, I'd be really careful, and mindful of the age and character of my students.

The teacher absolutely knows this isn't OK. It's drummed into you to be incredibly careful on all SM.

All accounts should be private & those kind of images heavily frowned upon.