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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Preferences dictating gender roles

63 replies

Jadefeather7 · 03/11/2020 00:26

Hi

I was hoping one of you wonderful mumsnetters could help me.

Currently in a discussion with someone who thinks preferences should dictate gender roles eg if there’s a study shows women overwhelmingly like men who are breadwinners, women should be housewives kind of thing. I want to give an example of why preferences shouldn’t determine gender roles by giving an example of a preference which we accept as one that we don’t want to promote. Can anyone think of anything? Would be so grateful!

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FWRLurker · 03/11/2020 01:44

If it’s a matter of faith or gods will why should whether it’s supported by science matter? It would still be holy to police gender roles whether or not science backed it being “natural”.

Murder is after all natural. Naturalistic fallacy etc.

Jadefeather7 · 03/11/2020 01:34

Well because they are religious they believe we have to guide people on how to live and religion provides that guidance by promoting gender roles. They want to show that’s its a position that’s backed by science as that will give it more legitimacy

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FWRLurker · 03/11/2020 01:24

religious people who think that gender roles are backed by science because according evolutionary psychologists and surveys men and women prefer Traditional gender roles.

Ok but yet again who cares? What should be done differently if it were scientifically proven (can’t be btw) that people on average prefer trad gender roles?

And Again Those are average differences. Or does this person believe that every person is identical? Are they blind or don’t understand statistics or both? And what a boring world if everyone were the same...

hoolahoopss · 03/11/2020 01:23

I think everyone wants to be equal in a lot of situations , but it's always obvious the real thoughts of people when there's a spider or a bin needs to be taken out. That's always a mans job somehow. Not everyone of course, but to me that shows the difference in people that automatically that's the male area , if the options there x

Jadefeather7 · 03/11/2020 01:16

It’s a religious people who think that gender roles are backed by science because according evolutionary psychologists and surveys men and women prefer Traditional gender roles.

@DancelikeEmmaGoldman I agree that socialisation point is definitely one that I will be making. They seem to think that these are preferences that we are born with and that are hard wired into us because of our genders. I think they attribute them to differences in our hormones

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DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 03/11/2020 01:07

People might have preferences for things based on socialisation and culture.

Girls are taught from a very young age to engage in household work, (help mummy with the washing), while boys often get a free pass on tasks and see their fathers doing a minimum at best. They see the same thing replicated in the media and the world around them. So girls learn that they should do housework and it’s their responsibility.

And there are structural reasons why women are more often housewives. Women are the ones who bear children, so there is an expectation they’ll stay home to care for them. Women generally earn less than men, so it becomes “sensible”, for the higher earner to remain in the workplace.

The thing is, it’s impossible to know what humans, men or women, would do without the influence of socialisation into gender roles. So what such studies are measuring are not natural or innate preference, but the success of socialisation.

Men get to have preferences for all kinds of interesting and energetic activities that are not housework, precisely because cultures teach women that they should care about housekeeping, whatever their real desires.

FWRLurker · 03/11/2020 01:06

But what’s the point of “having gender roles” in that case? If most people have those preferences, for whatever reason, they can go ahead and do those things no one is stopping them?

Or are they under the mistaken impression that the feminazis of the world are in the business of knocking and doors and “liberating” housewives? And in any case if that worked wouldn’t that also demonstrate said preference is pretty malleable?

The point here is that average differences do not translate to universal differences. Many people will conform many people won’t. Leave us alone ye “gender trads” and seek out each other.

PlanDeRaccordement · 03/11/2020 01:05

Why we no longer enforce universal gender roles- because gender nonconforming people always exist and they get killed or imprisoned by society or are driven to kill themselves.

Jadefeather7 · 03/11/2020 00:56

Enforced gender roles at the population level

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PlanDeRaccordement · 03/11/2020 00:52

Are you talking universal preferred enforced gender roles at population level or preferred gender roles decided at individual level?
Very different.

Jadefeather7 · 03/11/2020 00:51

I guess I’m looking for something like “80% of people said that they like steak”...but that doesn’t mean we should encourage red meat consumption because we know it’s bad for the planet, linked to cancer etc. I just feel like that’s a poor example and I was wondering if someone can give me a better one or at least eloquently describe why we don’t do such a thing.

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Jadefeather7 · 03/11/2020 00:45

So it’s not so much that they are drawing conclusions from observations eg all their friends like housewives so that must be universally true, it’s that they have studies in which large numbers of men and women were interviewed about sexual preferences and based on the findings from those studios they think we should have traditional gender roles because men and women have preferences for them.

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Barracker · 03/11/2020 00:35

I'm not sure what you describe are universal 'preferences'.

It seems to be this kind of reasoning for example;
"I observe many children working in slum factories in Bangladesh.
This must clearly be a 'preference' of Bangladeshi children.
Therefore it is right that we consider it a Bangladeshi child's role going forward."

The reasoning is broken.