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Original poster

Amnesty says feminist resistance to self-ID "is misguided and not based on evidence"

84 replies

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 02/11/2020 13:35

I wrote to Amnesty explaining why I had stopped sending them money, as their support for self-ID was harmful to women and girls. Their reply has just hit my inbox:

"We are sorry to hear about your concerns but Amnesty International is committed to campaigning for the rights of transgender people to live freely, authentically, and openly, and to have their gender legally recognised without having to go through a dehumanising, long and costly procedure.

"We do not believe this goes against our campaigning for women’s rights. We feel the current conversation, in particular on social media with regards to self-identification, is misguided and not based on evidence. Restricting the rights of transgender people will not advance or protect women's rights.

"Our campaigning on this issue is based on Amnesty’s research on legal gender recognition in multiple countries and on existing human rights standards. It also draws from our long-standing work on violence against women and its root causes. We do not launch campaigns without solid research and consideration for the human rights of all groups concerned, and we dispute any assertions that self-identification will be used by men in order to access spaces where women are vulnerable to abuse or harassment. There is absolutely no evidence that this would happen.

In countries where self-identification is already the process (Argentina, Ireland) the policy has had absolutely no impact on anyone other than trans people, making their lives easier."

So doing a bit of paperwork, rewarded by an unprecedented right to change your birth certificate, is "dehumanising". But opening women's single-sex spaces to all comers is just fine?

I think Irish women on MN have recently contradicted claims that everything in the self-ID garden is lovely.

As for we dispute any assertions that self-identification will be used by men in order to access spaces where women are vulnerable to abuse or harassment. There is absolutely no evidence that this would happen -- I'm now going to try to compile a list of TW attacking women in public loos, masturbating in women's refuges, posting their fetish play online from their workplace at a children's charity, etc etc.

I know Amnesty is just sending out a standard letter, but I’m still going to send some of the evidence they deny. MN’s ‘This never happens’ threads will be a good start. All other evidence welcomed.

OP posts:
testing987654321 · 02/11/2020 14:02

we dispute any assertions that self-identification will be used by men in order to access spaces where women are vulnerable to abuse or harassment.

Self-identification is used by men to be recognised as a woman. A person recognised as a women will get access to women's only spaces. That's literally the whole point of it.

Spaces where women are expecting to only see other women are precisely those spaces where they are vulnerable to abuse or harassment.

That's why prisons, changing rooms, women's hostels etc are single-sex. We don't make supermarkets singe-sex do we?

They can argue that men won't do it in order to abuse but they absolutely can't argue that men wouldn't use self-id to get access to those spaces. That's exactly the reason for it.

That's before we even get to evidence that men will go to extreme lengths to get access to vulnerable people.

EyesOpening · 02/11/2020 13:59

Am I imagining there’s a court case going on in the UK at the moment, where a woman was sexually assaulted by a transwoman when they were housed, not once but twice, together???
HmmConfused

MichelleofzeResistance · 02/11/2020 13:54

Women wanting to retain their sex based rights are misguided.

Grin

No. Next numpty please.

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 02/11/2020 13:52

Men can, will, have, and are currently using self ID to abuse women and it isn't even the law yet. Some of these men identify as men, some of them identify as women. Some of them aren't even using self ID but actually have GRCs so even the system in its current form is harming women. The evidence for this is very easy to find. Transwomen are just as likely to be a threat to women as any other group of men. Because they're men. Its really not rocket science. I can send Amnesty a diagram if it would help?

OldCrone · 02/11/2020 13:48

Another transgender sex offender in a women's prison in Ireland.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3644511-Transgender-sex-offender-in-womens-prison-in-Ireland

OldCrone · 02/11/2020 13:46

In countries where self-identification is already the process (Argentina, Ireland) the policy has had absolutely no impact on anyone other than trans people, making their lives easier.

They need to be told about Barbie Kardashian and what's happening in Irish prisons.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a4033284-Another-one-for-Irish-Feminists-this-person-holds-a-GRC-and-might-soon-be-held-in-Dochas-prison-with-women-and-childrem

highame · 02/11/2020 13:46

It should be so simple. Amnesty should be campaigning for the rights of trans people, no doubt about it. Could they explain why this has to be at the expense of women's rights?

RedDogsBeg · 02/11/2020 13:43

There is a thread on here about a twitter rant against (it's an awesome rant!) Irish LibFems which gives examples such as the TW in a female prison who has to have two guards at all times to stop them attacking and sexually assaulting female prisoners, everything in the garden in Ireland is far from rosy and the evidence is mounting up.

jellyfrizz · 02/11/2020 13:40

We do not launch campaigns without solid research and consideration for the human rights of all groups concerned, and we dispute any assertions that self-identification will be used by men in order to access spaces where women are vulnerable to abuse or harassment.

Their research can’t be very good because this:

There is absolutely no evidence that this would happen.

is clearly just wrong.