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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I am being asked to go into a meeting and introduce my pronouns to everyone in an hour and a half!

312 replies

WhatTheFuckHappenedHere · 29/10/2020 11:35

I am part of a work group tasked with running a big event that will take almost a year to plan. The first meeting is in an hour and a half over Zoom. The organiser, who I've never met, and goes by they/them pronouns according to the email signature, sent round an email reminder this morning with the meeting link, and including an agenda. The first thing on it is to introduce ourselves, our work area, an our gender pronouns. I don't really want to do this, but I need to work with this person and the group as a whole for the best part of a year! I'm feeling like I'll just have to go along with it lest I get accused of enacting literal and actual violence. Any advice?

OP posts:
MichelleofzeResistance · 29/10/2020 15:00

anything less than 100% compliance instils such fear in us that we don't 'dare' refuse as the consequences are potential cancellation

Thing is though, and what pisses me off the most, is so much of this expects that you will stay in your box to enable others to identify out of that box and that you will co operate by providing the norm to the more interesting variations of others.

I'm afraid if interesting variations are an option then either everyone gets to do it or no one does. Like inclusion and kindness. Either it's an equal value applied equally by everyone to everyone else, or it's a term being used to disguise something else entirely.

StartingGridGo · 29/10/2020 14:59

I wouldn't say anything about my pronouns on my introduction but if pushed, in a meeting in front of everyone, to state them, I'd say "my pronouns are obvious" followed by these faces >ConfusedHmm

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 29/10/2020 14:59

I'm v curious as to what the 'self care' instructions for the meeting were?

All light a candle or an incense stick, do two minutes of guided meditation focusing on the flow of your breathing innnnn, and ouuuuut, and all say OM.

FFS.

Cwenthryth · 29/10/2020 14:58

My line manager suggested my name was even more confusing for some & did I want to feminise my name.
That is awful. “Would you like to invite unconscious bias against you in order to help other people feel comfortable? They wouldn’t ask you to make your name sound more obviously identifiable as your race or religion would they.

Palavah · 29/10/2020 14:58

How did it go?

Whatwouldscullydo · 29/10/2020 14:57

Hope you managed to get out of it op

Bloody woke nonsense that actually harms women as sexism.is still rife.

Course no one cares though its just women.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 29/10/2020 14:57

Don't know how I git a quote there - I must have clicked it by accident - sorry.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 29/10/2020 14:56

@Shizzlestix

Also placematking. I’m intrigued to see if the OP”s colleague has the balls (e cause my sexism/genderism!!) to reject being asked. World’ has gone mad. Can’t people (is it offensive to say people??) just use names?
We have a very elderly vicar sitting in on it (he's contributing to something we're publishing). Really, that should deter me but it only makes me want to do it more.

If he's anything like the five retired vicars in our parish (1 woman, 4 men) he'll bliddy love it (but may have to feign shock). If he starts to choke, I can promise you that he is fighting back laughter!

MichelleofzeResistance · 29/10/2020 14:56

Loving the new 'I'm taking the 5th' - really that nails it.

"I am taking the Yogyakarta Principle 6."

(Everyone frantically googles.)

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 29/10/2020 14:56

+1 for the payslip.

This 'woke' stuff deserves nothing less than the thoroughgoing piss to be taken out of it. But they are all sooooo po-faced.

Ridiculous isn't it that anything less than 100% compliance instils such fear in us that we don't 'dare' refuse as the consequences are potential cancellation. I want to laugh, but I'm too angry.

LaurieFairyCake · 29/10/2020 14:55

Self care is definitely wank BEFORE meeting

MarshaBradyo · 29/10/2020 14:55

What a difficult one

I’d not want to be strong armed into saying this

I might do vagueness and leave it out but if everyone says it at end of their intro it’s tough

PeaceAndHarmoneeee · 29/10/2020 14:54

I'm v curious as to what the 'self care' instructions for the meeting were?

I mean really, everyone knows to have a wee and grab a brew before the meeting and in any breaks don't they?

Or does self care mean something else Confused

MichelleofzeResistance · 29/10/2020 14:53

Of course it's highly insensitive and outing to anyone actually considering their gender.

The point is though that it's almost always either thoughtless showing off by a workplace who know perfectly well they have no one at all who actually wants or needs to share pronouns but it's the In Thing, or there's someone with interesting pronouns who wants to see everyone else do this while assuming all of them to be nicely in the 'c**' box. No one's thought for a moment that anyone undeclared in the group might be affected.

I would love to respond that personally I believe it's the height of rudeness and disrespect to try to control other people's language and perceptions for my benefit. But I'd go with ignoring, and if pushed, to comment that I am not ready to talk about my pronouns publicly, please use whatever you feel appropriate, and then talk to HR about outing people in public.

MelodramPatheticism · 29/10/2020 14:53

Tell them you identify as a chair and they are to refer to you as 'it'.

LauraMipsum · 29/10/2020 14:53

@ArabellaScott

Say that this request goes against Yogyakarta Principle 6:

'STATES SHALL:
G. Ensure that requirements for individuals to provide information on their sex or gender are relevant, reasonable and necessary as required by the law for a legitimate purpose in the circumstances where it is sought, and that such requirements respect all persons’ right to self-determination of gender;'

I'm nabbing this for the next time I'm asked.
ConquestEmpireHungerPlague · 29/10/2020 14:51

@Winterterrace

“I’d like to be referred to as he and him and I expect my next pay slip to reflect that.”
This is hilarious and probably the sort of thing I would say. @MarieIVanArkleStinks's perspective is probably the right one, though.

I hope OP comes back to tell us how it went.

ArabellaScott · 29/10/2020 14:50

'I’ve an ambiguous name eg Sam, that can be confused with either male or female but when people meet me I’m clearly female. My line manager suggested my name was even more confusing for some & did I want to feminise my name.'

FUCK THIS. Seriously. What utter, utter shit kind of thinking leads to these conclusions? Are we to 'feminise' our clothing hair and speech to appease these absolute no-marks?

popcornlover · 29/10/2020 14:49

What if you don’t know what pronoun means? I would hazard that not everyone does.

ArabellaScott · 29/10/2020 14:45

Hoping you've not been whisked away to the gulag for 're education, OP.

ChelseaCat · 29/10/2020 14:38

Waiting with bated breath OP!

PullTheBricksDown · 29/10/2020 14:38

Placemarking to see what happened

Toptotoeunicolour · 29/10/2020 14:32

I'm pronoun free

🤣🤣

Deliriumoftheendless · 29/10/2020 14:30

I don’t really see the need.

Trans people who pass will be referred to as the sex they are assumed to be, which I imagine is what they’re happy with. Trans people who do not should be able to say “I’d like to be referred to as her/him” without expecting anyone else to follow suit. NB people should be able to say “btw if you could refer to me as they/them”. I don’t see why someone obviously female saying “I’m she/her” helps. As has been said if someone introduces them self as gay, or an MS sufferer, or vegan or a Scientologist or in recovery it’s not massively supportive for everyone else to say “I’m hetero, able bodied, omnivore, Muslim or teetotal.” It’s like a token gesture rather than simply accepting people.

Kokeshi123 · 29/10/2020 14:28

If you want a low-key way to get out of this, maybe pretend to have semi-misunderstood the directions by saying "My title is 'Ms.'" at the end.