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Polish women fighting back against abortion laws

37 replies

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 29/10/2020 02:02

It’s encouraging to see the protests.

“Tens of thousands of Poles have been marching for almost a week to protest a new high court ruling that imposes a near-total ban on abortion, blocking major roads and bridges and chanting anti-government slogans.

The demonstrators, some dressed as characters from “The Handmaid’s Tale,” have even disrupted masses and vandalized churches — a rare case of lashing out at the government’s ally, the Catholic Church, in the staunchly Catholic country.”

www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/world/europe/poland-abortion-ruling-protests.html

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Turefu · 03/11/2020 07:11

MrsTerryPrachett, no, abortion wasn’t easily accessible before. But changing Constitution is huge task. It’s the most important written law in Poland. It took years to prepare the current one. I don’t see this change happening anytime soon. Other thing is, Supreme Court members have been changed, replaced, very quickly, not long time ago, in pandemic times. Some people may argue, this change was illegal, so Supreme Court decision was void.

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/11/2020 20:33

If you constitution forces you to treat women like this, time to change your constitution.

It's not like Polish abortion provision was good before this latest change.

Maduixa · 02/11/2020 19:47

EarthSight yes, they did/do, and also in the cities the drivers of taxis, buses and trams use their vehicles to stop traffic in an area when protesters are going through.

EarthSight · 02/11/2020 19:24

I heard that some farmers had driven their tractors to cause disruption along certain roads in show of support too.

Maduixa · 02/11/2020 19:21

Turefu you’re right - this situation is tricky because the Polish government CANNOT reverse, as they could have done if they had passed this through the Sejm. (Which they couldn’t as they didn’t have the votes.)

Changing the constitution is one thing, another possibility is for someone impacted to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights. But did you see that Duda did comment? He seems to be backing off a bit from the decision- it’s the court, not the government. But just now in the middle of a global pandemic the court worries about a law that has been in place since 1993? Why?

As Gabcsika said, women in Poland are hurting right now and the situation is urgent. In Warsaw, hospitals were cancelling appointments even though the ruling has not yet taken effect, and (mayor of Warsaw) Rafał Trzaskowski spoke up and said no, you cannot do that. The idea of going abroad- it’s better than nothing, but let’s not underestimate how hard it is, especially now with COVID.

I say let the UK do something and I hope they will (UK has the longest period for a routine abortion, 24 weeks, of all European countries) but as Georgeoftheinternet pointed out, right now someone going from Poland to the UK and back has 2 weeks quarantine on each side. Women need to be able to have these procedures in Poland if they are already scheduled, and realistically if people go abroad now it will be mostly within Schengen, unless the UK does something crazy like override air corridors and quarantine for Polish women. And I don’t see that happening but why not ask.

HecatesCats · 02/11/2020 11:33

There are ad hoc protests taking place locally, like this one in Birmingham www.iambirmingham.co.uk/2020/11/01/hundreds-gather-birmingham-womens-strike-abortion-legislation-poland/ and there was one held in Brighton www.theargus.co.uk/news/18830903.brighton-protesters-unity-poland-abortion-law/. They have been organised by members of the local Polish communities, I can't find any national organisations currently speaking out.

persistentwoman · 02/11/2020 10:00

Women in Poland must succeed. All over the world women's rights seem to be being rolled back to background chants of 'inclusion and diversity'

Are there any women's organisations in the UK supporting this?

WomenAndVulvas · 02/11/2020 08:56

However, they are into gender neutral terminology - a strange concept given who they are working towards helping.
Strange is a kind way of putting it. Reading their homepage with all the talk about "pregnant people" has made me really angry.
It seems that even abortion cannot be 100% female.

I am in awe of the Polish women's courage. I hope they succeed!

merrymouse · 02/11/2020 08:33

At the time when we holidayed in Poland, when I was a child, women travelled to Poland - from countries where abortion wasn't legal - to access abortions there. And 40 years later, it's Polish women forced to do this. I mean what the actual fuck!

I think this demonstrates why we can't take our rights for granted.

merrymouse · 02/11/2020 08:31

How has it gone so far backwards?

This thread suggests that the Polish government are using a culture war to distract from their other failings.

twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1320257849281417216

Turefu · 02/11/2020 08:11

If Court Supreme decided , that abortions , when fetus is disformed, are illegal, this decision is final. No law in Poland can be against Constitution. The only way now is to change Constitution. It may only happen by act of Parliament . But current Goverment is very far right and President is also known of his right believes - although he didn’t comment yet on Supreme Court decision . I understand anger, but this is not the way to go. People should demand change of law, instead shouting vulgar words. Sad situation.
Out of interest I checked , how much it cost to go to have an abortion in Czechs. Roughly £500-600. Given fact average wage in Poland is now about £800, it’s a lot, but not out of reach most of Polish women.

Maduixa · 01/11/2020 16:06

Thank you, Gabcsika. I’m a Scot living in Warsaw and I remember my Government speaking up for women in NI and giving them the chance to get help in Scotland - and later on the UK Government did the same in England and Wales.

I am going to write to my reps in Scotland and the UK tonight to see what we can do to support Poland. I urge everyone here who can to do the same.

HecatesCats · 01/11/2020 13:56

It might be a good idea for everyone to write to their MPs.

Will do Gabcsika, thanks for highlighting the Danish response

Gabcsika · 01/11/2020 12:19

You can read about Denmark here:

cphpost.dk/?p=119884

Gabcsika · 01/11/2020 12:15

It might be a good idea for everyone to write to their MPs. You could ask what they think of it, if there's any plan to help Polish women as an act of kindness from the UK.

Denmark, for example are discussing in Parliament the prospect of of allowing women to have abortions there free of charge where it isn't availiable in their country. (N. Ireland, Malta and Poland) as a response to the latest ruling.

I would ask people to pressure their own state representatives, to ask if they would consider acting in solidarity with ordinary women in desperate and vulnerable situations, and how they intend to do it? Strong condemnation is not enough. We need help immediately - financial and practical, and we need governmental pressure.

If UK women, and in fact all women across Europe, could start doing that for us it would be amazing!

ValancyRedfern · 01/11/2020 11:57

Solidarity with the women of Poland. I've been told this week that I 'want to turn the UK into Poland' because I don't agree with teaching gender identity in schools. Nothing could be further from the truth.

HecatesCats · 31/10/2020 15:57

[quote Georgeoftheinternet]@CharlieParley I don’t understand the link between you holidaying and women having abortions?[/quote]
I took it to mean that things have changed dramatically for Polish women in the time since Charlie visited.

There's some interesting background in this article: ‘The current situation for Polish women is the worst in 25 years,’ mondediplo.com/2016/11/11Poland

Georgeoftheinternet · 31/10/2020 15:42

It’s a shame Poland is now on the quarantine list for the U.K. I hope they get support.

Georgeoftheinternet · 31/10/2020 15:40

@CharlieParley I don’t understand the link between you holidaying and women having abortions?

voteforsanity · 31/10/2020 15:38

And this is why right wing governments are no friends to women and women's rights. True, they will not try to re-define the word "woman."
They don't have to. Woman is already clearly defined under such systems and her standing is always inferior to man's. Her place is in the home, bearing children and obeying.
So much feminism in that picture.

stumbledin · 31/10/2020 15:37

I am not sure if everyone is aware of the Abortion Support Network originally set up to help women in Ireland it now helps women in Poland and Malta (and Spain?).

www.asn.org.uk/poland/
www.asn.org.uk/about-abortion-without-borders/

And for anyone who is having a quiet weekend a little digging would help out!

As far as I know they are totally voluntary.

However, they are into gender neutral terminology - a strange concept given who they are working towards helping. Confused

HecatesCats · 31/10/2020 14:04

[quote SunsetScreech]Brave, brave women. I hope none of them get hurt.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/world/womens-rights-groups-polish-nationalists-face-off-as-churches-become-flash-points-in-protests-over-abortion-law/2020/10/30/76c10c32-19f6-11eb-8bda-814ca56e138b_story.html%3foutputType=amp[/quote]
This self styled far right National
Guard pushing back against the protests is a worrying development.

CharlieParley · 30/10/2020 23:43

Thank you for keeping us up to date on this. I'm just so sad for Polish women, so angry, too. At the time when we holidayed in Poland, when I was a child, women travelled to Poland - from countries where abortion wasn't legal - to access abortions there. And 40 years later, it's Polish women forced to do this. I mean what the actual fuck! This state control over women's bodies should just not ever be acceptable.