CALL FOR ACTION Women&Equalities committee calling for evidence on GRA reform - again?!?

Just a reminder that this thread is about replying to the call for evidence.

And most GC people are pretty gender conforming as far as I can tell

judgey pants

is there any thing else that you're imagining based on zero evidence jj ?

Well in this context I mean gender ambiguous, or perhaps more correctly sex ambiguous, which a surprising number of people are.

Can you explain this a bit more? In what way are they 'sex ambiguous'? Are you saying you often encounter people whose sex is difficult to discern?

And most GC people are pretty gender conforming as far as I can tell.

What do you mean by this? How many of the people who are posting on here have you met in real life?

sex ambiguous, which a surprising number of people are

what absolute, unmitigated bobbins

I feel I can't submit anything because of the chance my name would be published. I just can't get past that.

Can you do a joint effort with someone who is willing to put their name on it?

And you're wrong by the way, some people are pretty good at telling lots aren't. Most often in my experience people aren't sure and often surreptitiously ask someone I'm with. I know at least one physically female women who is always presumed to be a man to the point people don't believe her sometimes when she tells them. She's not a fan of what gender critical people want either, understandably, she gets enough grief already without it being state sanctioned.

And how many do you actually know?

And most GC people are pretty gender conforming as far as I can tell.

Loads of gender non-conforming people have told you this will be a problem for them.

What makes you think that feminists are 'gender conforming'? Have you not yet realised that we are gender non-conforming people? Or are you using the term 'gender non-conforming people' to mean something other than people who are gender non-conforming?

As I pointed out upthread, being asked whether you are in the right lavatory really isn't a problem for a butch-looking woman. Women can tell straight away which sex you are, and the problem goes away. Been there, got the t-shirt.

Pure 100% gaslighting bullshit. We have to let men in or GNC women will be hassled. We managed perfectly well before. This is not a problem despite your desperate attempts to make it one.

gender ambiguous people

EVERYONE IS GENDER AMBIGUOUS FOR FUCKS SAKE

you know what? you're super special, and so is everyone else

aquired sex

Butch women are no threat to other women. People who are male are the threat, hence the single sex exemptions which allows the exclusion of anyone of the male sex no matter their gender Identity.

Again, there's definitely an agenda to reframe the legitimate exclusion of males who are presenting as women as a negative for women who are not especially feminine in appearance. There's no link at all. It's just a desperate attempt to deflect as ever.

This.

yup jj, see where the government issuing 'I am a woman' certificates has got us.

daft idea wasn't it?

@TeaPoweredScientist

Or perhaps the onus is on us to "prove" our womanhood, if our word isn't enough? So, should we start carrying around copies of our birth certificates so we can show them to anyone who challenges our presence? That's dystopian as all hell, and also reveals my (rather uncommon) full name to a potentially-homophobic stranger who might use this information to stalk, threaten or harass me.

That's exactly what some gender critical groups want, as Fair Play For Women explain here: fairplayforwomen.com/changing_rooms/

"It’s a well established custom in the UK that people use the changing rooms appropriate to their sex. However, in order to uphold your lawful policy of providing women with a female-only changing room it may sometimes be necessary for staff to deny access to a male person. We instinctively know who’s male and female simply by looking which makes it quick and easy for staff to spot if a male person enters a female changing room.

To uphold your single-sex changing room policy you can reserve the right for staff to discreetly ask for additional information before using the service you are providing. The only legal document that confirms someones legal sex is a birth certificate. All other common forms of ID, including passport and driving licence, can now be updated on request to show someone’s self-declared gender identity so can no longer be used for the purposes of confirming legal sex class."

Having met someone externally typically masculine with a beard and known from the second they smiled and said good morning what sex they were - and felt my entire body relax since someone of that sex in an isolated place approaching me has never so far in my life ever led to any cause for alarm and countless times in positive experiences - I don't think this potential misreading or anxiety on sight will last much beyond some basic interaction. Female socialisation also frequently means females care about other females being anxious by their presence and generally speaking tend not to react with taking selfies with a sword, for a random example. I may be wrong about that, please anyone with screenshots do correct me.

I do love watching people make what is in fact very simple into a hill they will die on trying to complicate it.

If we want to talk about men using women's toilets, we could talk about my ex colleague who 'transitioned' for a year or so and merrily went into the women's toilets in my work place, until he was asked not to because he kept making inappropriate comments while he was in there

after a year, he very sensibly desisted, so what sex was he while he was in the women's loo? do you think it was OK for him to assume he was welcome there?

blimey, another toilet obsessive

I'd have said, off the top of my head that the following are all more interesting and relevant to talk about

1. men competing in women's sport
2. men using women's single sex hospital wards
3. men taking women's places on all women shortlists and training courses intended specifically for women
4. Women prisoners being locked up with male rapists
5. scarce women's aid resources being diverted to men
6. a woman finding a male nurse rocked up to do her smear and being accused of bigotry when she objected
7. school girls being forced to share changing rooms with boys
8. men using women's single sex sleeping accommodation (looking at you YHA)

but by all means, let's talk about men using women's toilets

surely you've heard of Katie Dolatowski, the man who sexually assaulted a 10 year old girl when he was using women's toilets in a super market?

because that's what happens when you normalise men using women's single sex provision