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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Betsy DeVos Attacks Trans Athletes Again": New Statesman

38 replies

Malahaha · 27/10/2020 15:40

My opinion of this woman has made a U-turn. As is so often the case. I used to think she was ridiculous. Now, she's a voice for truth.

Quote from the article:
So much for “live free or die.” In a jarring attack on trans student-athletes, the Department of Education’s Betsy DeVos has forced Franklin Pierce University in New Hampshire to rescind its trans-inclusive policies for its athletic programs. DeVos claims that Franklin Pierce’s guidelines violate Title IX, which is meant to protect women in spaces that receive public funding. In the eyes of the Trump administration, trans women are not regarded as women at all.

www.thenation.com/article/society/trans-devos-title-ix/

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FWRLurker · 27/10/2020 17:20

I actually agree that the way Title 9 has been used in the US Before the changes was bad and did NOT help victims. It was basically a CYA clause for universities. As long as they had a “process” on the books it didn’t matter how many rapes happened on their campuses. In many cases during the process victims were encouraged not to make a police report And brush things under rugs. under title 9 “protections” women who are assaulted have to keep going to class with their rapists. Not to say that the criminal justice system is helpful a lot of the time, but at least in those cases an arrest and immediate removal is at least possible (and with an arrest a rapist can be expelled or suspended).

With A title 9 office you have to Wait for a tribunal Process (which can take years) before your Rapist is removed from campus.

In sum. I do not think that title 9 has helped victims of sexual assault much if at all. It has protected universities and perpetrators. I’d be happy to see data that shows I’m wrong.

I disagree with Devos on her plans to gut public education but I agree with her mostly on title ix use in SA allegations. And I certainly agree with her on using it to protect sex based right to sport.

Ohalrightthen · 27/10/2020 17:17

@334bu

" I don't think that's really all that relevant tbh. I haven't done a huge amount of research into the issue of trans women in women's sports, so i don't really have a fixed opinion on that, "

Why do you need research when everyone knows that someone with a male body has an overwhelming advantage over someone with a female body when it comes to almost all sport? Pretending that transwomen are somehow different because they may have lowered their testosterone to 5times higher than the average women when it has as been proven to make little or no difference to their athletic ability is absolute nonsense.

Yeah, sure, makes sense, not saying it doesnt, just saying i haven't given it concerted thought or read her statements.

Regardless, she is not someone I'd want on my side for any cause or position, and referring to her as a voice of truth is a risky thing to do if you don't want to be seen as an ignorant, regressive, oppressive bigot.

wellbehavedwomen · 27/10/2020 17:14

@nepeta

DeVos opposes the trans ideology for a different reason than women here. She is not a feminist. Anti-feminists want the term 'woman' to remain sex-based because they wish to prove that the female sex is inherently different and lesser in various ways, and that it is best suited for various support tasks at home and in low-paid occupations.

Gender critical feminists disagree with her on all other aspects of her belief. She altered the US campus rape policies to be kinder for the men who are accused of rape and harsher for the women who are raped, for instance.

As someone said, both the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) and Ku Klux Clan need a name for blacks as a race, but the reasons for that need are opposite.

Completely agree.
334bu · 27/10/2020 17:14

" I don't think that's really all that relevant tbh. I haven't done a huge amount of research into the issue of trans women in women's sports, so i don't really have a fixed opinion on that, "

Why do you need research when everyone knows that someone with a male body has an overwhelming advantage over someone with a female body when it comes to almost all sport? Pretending that transwomen are somehow different because they may have lowered their testosterone to 5times higher than the average women when it has as been proven to make little or no difference to their athletic ability is absolute nonsense.

nepeta · 27/10/2020 16:55

DeVos opposes the trans ideology for a different reason than women here. She is not a feminist. Anti-feminists want the term 'woman' to remain sex-based because they wish to prove that the female sex is inherently different and lesser in various ways, and that it is best suited for various support tasks at home and in low-paid occupations.

Gender critical feminists disagree with her on all other aspects of her belief. She altered the US campus rape policies to be kinder for the men who are accused of rape and harsher for the women who are raped, for instance.

As someone said, both the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) and Ku Klux Clan need a name for blacks as a race, but the reasons for that need are opposite.

Ohalrightthen · 27/10/2020 16:52

@andyoldlabour

Ohalrightthen

Do you agree with what De Vos had to say though?

I don't think that's really all that relevant tbh. I haven't done a huge amount of research into the issue of trans women in women's sports, so i don't really have a fixed opinion on that, but i have done a lot of reading around DeVos and her track record on education (and many other things) and truly believe her to be a vile woman, absolutely morally bankrupt and despicable, and as a member of the queer community i would not ever trust anyone who declared her to be a voice of truth.
MondayYogurt · 27/10/2020 16:30

Hard nope. We can do better.

andyoldlabour · 27/10/2020 16:20

Ohalrightthen

Do you agree with what De Vos had to say though?

FairFridaythe13th · 27/10/2020 16:16

Even a busted clock etc, but she is a loathesome woman.

pallisers · 27/10/2020 15:43

If she is a voice for truth, I guarantee you it is not motivated by any feminist, women-centered ideology. Betsy deVos is a horrible woman.

Unfortunately the only people in the US consistently speaking up for women in this arena are rightwing evangelicals who loath all the letters of the LGBTQ. Frankly it isn't doing the cause any good.

Ohalrightthen · 27/10/2020 15:42

A voice for truth!? The woman who is systematically defunding education across America? Allies like this do you no favours at all.

Malahaha · 27/10/2020 15:40

Sorry, The Nation, not New Statesman. Brain fog there.

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