No to self-ID, so when does a man 'become' a transwoman / woman?

In "Tina"'s case she has two very strong masculine stereotypes in her (Northern working class) family - her dad and her brother. Perhaps in a different family set up she would have been comfortable being gay?

I told him I thought that was unfair to expect him to become part of the "charade" (for want of a better word)

Quite often, including some MTF trans people who have posted on here, it seems to mean "I don't feel like what I think a man should stereotypically feel like and therefore personally I'm not comfortable identifying as a man so I'm going to be a woman instead".

So how can anyone tell?

DS shares a flat with a uni friend who identifies as a transwoman.

She:

• has not changed her name officially anywhere, so her bank, the university and her employer (and her parents!) still use her former (male) name
• does not take hormones
• has not undergone any surgery
• has not approached any GP/ medical practitioner about transitioning
• does not wear women's clothes/ make up or have a 'female' hairstyle

When I asked DS how and why he thought she identified as a woman he couldn't explain, but just said something about it being 'how she feels in herself'.

Women in 2020 have to meet in secret. Ffs.

The other issue is that even once you've gotten to the bottom of the OPs question how do you prove/disprove someone's sex? You can't ask for a copy of their birth certificate or ask them to prove they are male/female which almost makes safeguards pointless.

It's the agression that seems to have worked for TRA's. Push and push until women cave in, then they can say 'but we already do access women's spaces'. Bullying and control are part of the narrative and a recognition that we will have to take court action. This is not a democracy at work.

lived "as the opposite sex"

I just can't get past this. IT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING, ffs.

What you wear, what you call yourself.

Sorry, I know this is not an answer, OP, I just sometimes despair.

Unless a man has periods, gives birth, experiences menopause etc, he will never ever 'live as the opposite sex'.

It's a complete mess isn't it, and one that Stonewall and individual activists are determined to use to their advantage.

EHRC are up to their sexist necks in this, producing incorrect guidance, not correcting it when this was pointed out to them and now defending their stance against Ann Sinnott. Deliberate misinformation aimed at undermining women's legal rights. From the EHRC.

Ann's case (like so many others that ordinary women have had to bring via bring-and-buy crowdfunders) couldn't be more important.

Hope your friend's organisation is able to continue to prioritise women of the adult human female kind OP.

www.feministcurrent.com/

This is a great resource website set up by legal eagle feminists to help. They had some good articles which give further examples of how the comparators are used (as mentioned by pps above) as described above.

If it is not too outing, what type of female based services is the person looking to avail themselves of?

Para 27 schedule 3 to the Eq Act

Single-sex services

27(1)A person does not contravene section 29, so far as relating to sex discrimination, by providing a service only to persons of one sex if—

(a)any of the conditions in sub-paragraphs (2) to (7) is satisfied, and

(b)the limited provision is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

(2)The condition is that only persons of that sex have need of the service.

(3)The condition is that—

(a)the service is also provided jointly for persons of both sexes, and

(b)the service would be insufficiently effective were it only to be provided jointly.

(4)The condition is that—

(a)a joint service for persons of both sexes would be less effective, and

(b)the extent to which the service is required by persons of each sex makes it not reasonably practicable to provide separate services.

(5)The condition is that the service is provided at a place which is, or is part of—

(a)a hospital, or

(b)another establishment for persons requiring special care, supervision or attention.

(6)The condition is that—

(a)the service is provided for, or is likely to be used by, two or more persons at the same time, and

(b)the circumstances are such that a person of one sex might reasonably object to the presence of a person of the opposite sex.

(7)The condition is that—

(a)there is likely to be physical contact between a person (A) to whom the service is provided and another person (B), and

(b)B might reasonably object if A were not of the same sex as B.

(8)This paragraph applies to a person exercising a public function in relation to the provision of a service as it applies to the person providing the service.

Not that a makes a difference as it applies to both but are they wanting support or a job? I have seen quite a few job adverts where they say this position is for females only under the EQ2010 section blah blah part blah blah. Also I watched a video from a government meeting with a panel and three people from different refuges talking about this and the government minister specifically said that you can refuse them

I totally agree!

I hope your friend finds the information she needs to be able to confidently fight her corner. You do have to wonder about the sort of person (of either sex and whatever gender) who wants to force themselves into somewhere that they are neither welcomed nor have the right to be

Which is why the Ann Sinnott case is very important. Getting the EHRC to interpret the law clearly, is vital. And not something they appear to be very enthusiastic about, to be honest.

My laptop is playing up and won't let me attach a picture, but if you scroll down the factsheets page a bit there's one about single sex spaces which references the specific parts of the EA which apply in the different circumstances

fairplayforwomen.com/factsheets/

Hopefully Ann Sinnott will be granted JR to look at this.

I think the EHRC giving guidance has a lot to do with the current problems over changing rooms / toilets etc

Women have the right in law to single sex spaces as per the EA2010, but transwomen/TRAs see on the EHRC website that they should be treated as the gender they present as, so believe they also have a right to these spaces in law

From FPFW fairplayforwomen.com/legal-basics/#a2.2

4.2 Sex-based exemptions (Full)

This is different to sex-based eligibility because it makes legal provision exclusively for natal females, acknowledging the importance of biological sex differences between the three groups. These exemptions are discretionary and their use must be shown to be a proportionate means to a legitimate aim. For example, in a women’s refuge where females are escaping male violence is it appropriate to exclude all natal males, irrespective of their legal sex status. A male-born trans person without a GRC can be refused based on being legally male. A male-born trans person with a GRC can be refused based on membership of the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

The three groups referred to above are:

1. Females
2. Males with a GRC making them legallyfemale (but of course still biologically male)
3. Males who self ID as women, so legally and biologically male

This should never ever have even been an issue because no adult male born person ever requires female sex based rights, regardless of any chosen identity because they are based on our biology and reproductive systems.

The comparator should always be other males. GRC or not.

They have the protection of gender reassignment, which prevents them being treated less favourably or discriminated against compared to other males.

To say no transmen in women's toilets would be discrimination against both sex and gender reassignment.
Same with transwomen using male facilities.
Not the other way round. They seem to like ignoring/re writing the part that we are allowed to discriminate against anyone of the male sex in female only spaces and sports.

Unfortunately the EHRC statutory guidance is still wrong, although Eresh is right they did change some.

I've got internet trouble at the moment but when I get that sorted I will post the relevant sections of the Eq Act so your friend can see them, OP.