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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sydney Herald "Younger men failing to recognise domestic violence" shocking survey.

41 replies

334bu · 25/10/2020 22:07

amp.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/incredibly-shocking-younger-men-failing-to-recognise-domestic-violence-20201024-p56864.html?__twitter_impression=true

Really distressing survey on young men's attitude to violence against women and girls. It's 2020 and young men still think it's acceptable to hit their girlfriends.Sad

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RuffleCrow · 26/10/2020 17:11

We've been warning for years that we're going backwards and here's the evidence! I know some Brits view Oz as a backwater when it comes to attitudes towards women anyway but the gulf between the ages busts that myth.

NRatched · 26/10/2020 17:05

Also yes, not surprising that this view is most prevalent in younger people. When porn is normalized for them, MRA tropes are common and misogyny is constant, then yes, opinions will be warped by that. We are definitely currently going backwards with womens rights.

NRatched · 26/10/2020 17:02

I wonder what that portion of males think IS domestic violence? If it does not include..violence. And apparently a similar amount think non-consensual sexual activity is not domestic violence either?!

Given those attitudes, I would wager that that proportion of men simply do not believe domestic violence exists at all. Or (maybe m,ore likely) would class 'nagging' or 'saying no' as domestic violence. Awful awful people.

NewlyGranny · 26/10/2020 08:19

I grew up in Australia in the 60s and 70s and things were starting from a very low base indeed for women. It was not a great place to be a growing girl, teenager and young woman for a lot of the time!

NewlyGranny · 26/10/2020 07:42

An abuser's definition of what constitutes 'real' abuse is flexible and always sits one or two orders of magnitude above their latest offence.

I call it the 'Be grateful I'm not an axe murderer,' position. Also known as 'You shouldn't wind me up - now look what you made me do!'

nepeta · 26/10/2020 07:40

Thanks, DancelikeEmmaGoldman. My quick reading suggests that things have gotten worse in recent years.

BlackWaveComing · 26/10/2020 07:34

The young have far more education on the topic. It's discussed far more openly, and public awareness campaigns, which didn't exist when I was growing up, occur regularly. It makes no sense to think they are just lacking exposure to the idea that punching your girlfriend is domestic abuse.

nepeta · 26/10/2020 07:17

I would like to know if there were earlier surveys about this topic and if so, how the answer looked. In other words, have we gone backwards or is it just the young don't know what domestic abuse looks like while older people have learned from either personal experience or from news etc.

CaraDuneRedux · 26/10/2020 07:02

What the fuck?

I have no words.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 26/10/2020 01:33

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BlackWaveComing · 26/10/2020 00:16

@ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble

The answer is not easy tbh. Society needs to change. The justice system needs to change. The media needs to change. Laws around prostitution and porn need to change. Men need to actively speak out and speak against DV, educate the boys and young men. Just not being an abuser is not enough. It was never enough.

Schools can try and educate all they want, I know mine does. Everyone says the right thing in a classroom environment(about most things),amongst themselves ,at home, on phones or in the playground it's a very different story for some of them.

Yes, this.
BlackWaveComing · 26/10/2020 00:15

@334bu

How do we change this? Should schools be making the teaching of consent a priority.? Should respect for women and girls be taught in the same ways as respect for other minority groups?
It's already on the curriculum for PDHPE. There are public awareness campaigns regularly.

These boys are not suffering a lack of education.

ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble · 25/10/2020 23:48

even just convincing them to move away from their friends and family

It never stops there though,does it?
Behaviour like that escalates and it never happens in isolation.

ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble · 25/10/2020 23:44

The answer is not easy tbh. Society needs to change. The justice system needs to change. The media needs to change. Laws around prostitution and porn need to change.
Men need to actively speak out and speak against DV, educate the boys and young men. Just not being an abuser is not enough. It was never enough.

Schools can try and educate all they want, I know mine does. Everyone says the right thing in a classroom environment(about most things),amongst themselves ,at home, on phones or in the playground it's a very different story for some of them.

Coyoacan · 25/10/2020 23:41

Someone can only isolate another person if that person is afraid of some kind of retribution

Actually that is not the only or even the most common way to isolate someone. There are lots of psychological tricks and other techniques used to isolate one's partner, even just convincing them to move away from their friends and family, although I presume that would be too subtle to be considered a crime in anyone's book.

334bu · 25/10/2020 23:13

How do we change this? Should schools be making the teaching of consent a priority.? Should respect for women and girls be taught in the same ways as respect for other minority groups?

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ErrolTheDragon · 25/10/2020 23:05

@nepeta

How interesting to find that age gradient! The oldest men were the best informed. And the young women were less informed than middle-aged men.

This must show a change in the popular culture and not in a good direction. It would be interesting to see similar studies done in other countries.

I'm not sure this should be seen as too surprising- older people generally are better informed about human behaviour and its consequences than younger, surely, just because of direct and indirect experience.
wellbehavedwomen · 25/10/2020 23:03

I agree with that. Violence needs to remain clearly defined - because we suffer so, so much more of it, and we are physically less able to defend ourselves, as well as inflict equivalent harm on the rare occasions women are violent.

We've seen where the idea that words can equal violence has led, and it's certainly not anywhere good for the half of the human race who are rarely violent, but all too often in receipt of it.

None of that is to downplay the horrors of coercive control and emotional abuse. They're linked, absolutely, but we are in the state we are because of language being twisted out of shape. Words have meanings, and we need to retain them if we want to be able to assert a shared reality, based on facts.

Having said that - this doesn't surprise me. Young people are being told that women are privileged compared to strapping young males asserting a gender identity contrary to their sex. Porn doesn't help, either. We are seeing more violence towards women, more denigration of women, and less understanding of that, and grossly reduced chances of consequence - yet human behaviour hasn't changed one jot. The world we currently inhabit is more nakedly misogynist than any I can remember - it's shocking to think how far we've fallen, and how fast.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 25/10/2020 22:58

@Thelnebriati

Its all called domestic abuse. Violent acts can be called domestic violence.
Totally agree with that.

Anyway, sorry for derail. I think it is an important point, but not as important as the concern this survey raises.

DandyMandy · 25/10/2020 22:55

I saw this elsewhere earlier and I was disgusted but not surprised. This world is going backwards. I'm so scared for women and girls.

Thelnebriati · 25/10/2020 22:55

Its all called domestic abuse. Violent acts can be called domestic violence.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 25/10/2020 22:53

If that was directed at me theinebriati then I have not said that I believe that, quite the opposite. I just don’t want to use the word violence for non-violent acts. That view says nothing about how I might regard the the harm caused to the victim by the abuse, whether violent or not.

BlackWaveComing · 25/10/2020 22:51

Refuse to recognise, is a better way of putting it.

BlackWaveComing · 25/10/2020 22:48

Psychological violence exists, as those of us who have experienced it know.

These boys don't recognise punching their girlfriend as abuse. Let's stay with that for a bit.