SANDS sorry if upsetting

If we are respectfully silent, it makes it sound as if Freddie is the only person who has strong views on the matter.

Freddie is happy to directly address bereaved women as "bullies" for speaking up. Got a hell of a lot of likes for it, too. What happens if we let him be the loudest in the room?

I recommend anyone who views this thread as an unnecessary pile-on to check out Freddy McConnell's tweets as referenced up thread. This is not going to go away.

JustAmotherOne

I am sorry for your loss.

I honestly don't want to disrupt Sands' work. I'm not emailing them. I think enough voices have been heard that I don't need to add to the avalanche of feedback they're receiving.

But at the same time, I think this mis-step at the top is deeply sinister and it's worthy of discussion.

Not all women found that tweet to be insensitively phrases. But many did, and it was easily predictable that they would find it hurtful, so something has gone very badly wrong in their management. I just don't have faith that they'll get back to doing what they do best if we give them the benefit of the doubt and stop discussing it entirely.

@JustAmotherOne

I'm so very sorry for your loss, and am so glad SANDS helped you when you so desperately needed them to.

Not every case of inclusive language is a calculated move to appease trans people or an attempt to erase women.

If this were true then why is it only language associated with women and being female that is being erased in the interest of being 'inclusive'. Men are still referred to as men, prostrate cancer campaigns refer to men not prostrate-havers...

So peased to see that we all recognise the good work that SANDs does. I'm not sure why jj has decided to speak for lesbians. This lesbian mother is very clear that I (and all the other lesbian mothers I know) have no problem with the language of women.
Let's hope that this has been an object lesson in understanding that women and parents - especially when facing a profound loss - should be treated with respect and care and should not be used by any political movements to further their own ends.

Not every case of inclusive language is a calculated move to appease trans people or an attempt to erase women.

Not sure this is true, unfortunately. I think, as Melroses said, this is part of a massive and deliberately insidious campaign that is spreading through the charity sector, both through carefully placed staff and through transactivist companies engaging on all levels, but especially targetting anything that relates to women.

I’m sorry if you feel personally hurt by this, but the reality is that the charity that helped you, and is still helping others, is now also being used to drive a different agenda.

This is not the fault of those wonderful people who helped you, nor even the people on the ground right now, who continue to help families. But we bury out heads in the sand and pretend it’s not happening at our peril.

I have worked in complaints, many years ago, and the apology given is a professional apology, not a sincere one that indicates that the voice of the women who have been hurt by this have been heard and understood. I hope a proper apology will come in due course, but until it does, those who are in pain have every right to express that.

Your reaction to the language used is completely valid and no one should tell you otherwise. However other bereaved parents feel differently and have been upset by it - some on this thread and plenty in response to the tweet. Their reaction is valid too, and I don’t think these bereaved mothers should have their reaction labelled “point scoring”. As their follow up tweet says, SANDS is for everyone and it’s important those for whom the use of the word mother is important to their experience are respected, even though lots of bereaved mothers do not feel strongly about it.

*Justamotherone
*
Am so sorry for your loss. I know how hard that is.

I understand your reasoning behind ppl searching for support and reading these threads. But Women NEED to read these threads to understand that their grief as mothers DOES matter.
We aren't birthing parents. We are women.

I am quite sure that the people working on the ground in SANDS are very committed and doing a good job.

This comes from above from the corporate charity sector, the sharing of 'good practice' amongst executives that are not grounded in the charity they work for.

For example there is someone who has moved to an influential position in SANDS via the ramblers, the NSPCC, Girl Guiding and Leonard Cheshire. So their expertise is in "running a charity" and their interests are in transferable skills.

I would hate to see charities crumble underneath all of this.

As someone pointed out upthread, there is trouble at the National Trust following a less subtle change in direction - and there are a lot of powerful interested parties who are connected with its original setting up, so one to watch. But this is happening all over.

It is not inclusive language - it excludes women who in desperate situations find solace in being a mother.

Language matters.

I didn't take it that way at all. They could be talking to families with two mothers (so inappropriate to refer to 'the mother' as it implies only one is present), intended parents in a surrogacy arrangement etc.

I’m a lurker here, but feel moved to compelled to speak up on this.

My child died.

Seeing SANDS dragged out and accused of all sorts for this is horrible.

They are a major source of meaningful support for parents going through a truly terrible life changing experience.

They have apologised, and said the word mother should have been there.

Time to let them get back to doing what they do best, for all parents and families who lose a baby.

Think about the people who are searching today for SANDS because it’s happening to them today. Let SANDS spend their energy helping them, not dealing with an inbox and Twitter full of complaints from people objecting about this when they’ve already said sorry.

Like some other other bereaved parents here in this thread, the absence of the word mother on one tweet, to me, does not even twitch the needle when I think of SANDS. Their place in my life and my family’s life, is enormous and significant in surviving a major traumatic loss.

I’m actually quite affronted to see this happening. It feels like they are being unfairly used and attacked as a point scoring thing.

One of their great strengths is that they are there for parents and families, not only mothers.

Using that as a stick to beat them with, and to make a big noise about charities being influenced by activists, and claim they are are being bullied is so wide of the mark.

I don’t know, this has made me feel really uncomfortable.

Not every case of inclusive language is a calculated move to appease trans people or an attempt to erase women.

I understand the upset this has caused to me

Fixed it for you jj. You're welcome.

There have been tentative flirtations with this blurring of language for some time.

I’ve supported sands since the stillbirth of my son over a decade ago. I give quite a significant amount every month. I will stop. If that is the only way I will be listened too.

I'm not going to get involved with this thread as I understand the upset this has caused

Cheery bye then.

As PP have said many times, some things ARE exclusive! Being a mother is something that is limited to women however they identify. I work in a very woke sector & one of the problems with the rush to make everything ‘inclusive’ is that the very people something was designed for end up being excluded in the rush to include everyone

^I'm not going to get involved with this thread as I understand the upset this has caused except to say please understand this is primarily about using language to support lesbians and secondarily to support trans men. It has nothing at all to do with trans women and it's really not fair to blame everything you don't like on some sinister trans plot. It was one tweet, using inclusive language, presumably to support grieving LGBT parents, the word mother is mentioned hundreds of times on the Sands website:www.sands.org.uk/search?s=mother^

Bollocks.

I don't know any lesbian mothers who would want to be referred to as the "birthing parent". There may be some who would prefer "birthing parent", but all the ones I know would be just as upset to be addressed this way as any heterosexual mother.

I think their opinions count, don't you?

The language was to be inclusive of people like Freddie and transwomen. In the attempt to be inclusive of them, it was cruel to the women Sands was founded to support.

Bereaved mothers have spoken very movingly on MN before on what it is like to suffer infant loss, and how society at large does not see you as a mother if they didn't see you in the role of mother. Women's grief goes unacknowledged..

Sands is one of the organisations that should know and understand this better than anyone else and should never risk perpetuating it. That tweet was a kick in the teeth.

Don't use lesbians as a figleaf for it.

jj
I'm not going to get involved with this thread as I understand the upset this has caused except to say please understand this is primarily about using language to support lesbians and secondarily to support trans men.

If it was anything to do with supporting lesbians why would they not use the word mother?? You get double mother with a lesbian couple - why is either woman going to want to avoid that word??

What’s wrong with women and .....

Attempting to exclude bereaved mothers from their own grief is quite possibly the shittiest trick I have ever seen in the entire history of shit.
to you all.

jj, the first page of your link makes it rather clear that they quote others using the word mother while generally not using it themselves. Which was rather my point.

Pages they have written themselves (as opposed to quotations from other sources, and "true life stories") tend to steer clear of "mother", "women" and "woman".

Unfortunately it seems that the importance of language only applies to him, and women trying to make a point about the importance of language to them are bigots.

That’s exactly the issue. It’s only ever about them and when women object we’re “bigots” or “transphobic”.

Language is important to them but we’re not allowed to consider it important to us.

What a tangly mess
Why didnt they just say, "one parent sometimes feels left out and isolated" - all this birthing and non-birthing crap just makes it unreadable.