University 'feminist' discussion group

Missing the point slightly, but what on earth does the ruling on Self ID have to do with the pandemic, other than that it happened during it? Surely the discussion should be centred, as a PP said, on the detrimental effect of an increased caring burden on women, their loss on earning power, the focus on men’s jobs over women’s...

I haven’t read all the comments, but I would be tempted to go and ask a few pointed questions, in an innocent way. Get people to clarify what they mean. Say you don’t understand. Even ask what they mean by exclusionary. I see universities at the heart of this - all the new grads come out and then push it at work. It needs challenging at source. I totally get how you might not have the energy for it, but I think it’s important to try and challenge in a constructive way, whenever we see anything like this.

Could you just turn up for the first half and then, when they've finished discussing the effects of the pandemic on women and are about to move on to trans rights and feminism make your excuses and leave?

Also if you do discuss this with them, could you see if it works to just insist that the question in hand is dealt with first? Before the diversionary whataboutery that allows key questions to go unanswered is allowed to silence the question? Feels like a lot of these genderist concepts or claims only appear to hold up because they are forbidden to be examined.

So if you said, ‘well, there do seem to be some rights in conflict here. let’s think about safety first, what’s to stop rapists or voyeurs following women and girls into toilets under self ID?’

Then a genderist will say ‘What, Are you saying that trans people are rapists?/ what about the risk of rape to transwomen in men’s toilets?/but women already get raped in toilets/ what about this? what about that? What are you implying with this offensive question? Etc.

I’d be interested what would happen if it was possible to just insist the question in hand was answered first. Before any other questions can be raised in response to obscure the obvious (misogynistic) answer to the question.

Could you just politely enquire when the rest of the reading material will be distributed; that you note there’s one from a man so you assume there’ll similarly be one from a woman, one from a gay man, one from a lesbian woman, one from a transman and one from a transwoman. Could they let you know when they’ll be coming so you’ll have plenty of time to read and digest all the different viewpoints to see where the overlaps and differences are, and that you think it’s great that they want to have an inclusive discussion that covers all the different views on how to be inclusive... and that as every educator knows, it’s the best learning opportunities come when you’re able to have a genuine discussion where you can gain understanding by comparing and contrasting different viewpoints rather than focus on one restricted idea...

Obviously you’d need to rewrite in good proper education-ese! But if you could get Debbie Hayton and that chap who was a stonewall founder that has written some great articles that basically say enough of the trans stuff, we need to be pro gay and lesbian too, you’d get some pro feminist/GC stuff in that you can say is diverse as it represents G and T viewpoints - then if they complain you could try turning it around on them for being exclusionary and who has the right to decide what a group thinks if they are members of the group or someone from the outside - so a chance to spin and derail the conversation by showing how it’s their personal opinion as others supposedly from the same group see things very differently. Might swing it into an interesting conversation that brings out the bullying dictatorial nature of TRAs that appear to be directions the group...

I have been gathering the info of local women of every political affiliation in my area with the promise that when we reached 20 members we would begin to have meetings. COVID happened and because of pragmatic fear none of us are comfortable meeting via Zoom or otherwise web-based. Thus far we are 26 members great (between my direct invites and approved invites by those I have invited) without one meeting under our petticoats. When I see my friendly crones we speak in hushed tones - at times literally cackling with excitement in the knowing that we have found the perfect women's space we have all been craving (Speak Easy with a secret room). We plan to have our first meeting 10/31 as a tribute to our societal status in full costume and proper masks, cell phones will be put in plastic/tagged and held by yours truly in a plastic cauldron. Women now of the local area (from around the world of various ages, ethnicities, and sexual orientations) will meet to determine how and where we will be heard. We are a mix of financial professionals, attorneys, doctors, city councilwomen, SAHM, SAHG, and much more but most importantly we share the only thing intrinsic to being feminists in name and/or in action - being human females. I am motivated and excited by the reaction of the women in my area - their relief at my proposition stoked the fire in my already burning belly. Be what you want to see - I may fail but at least I began the brew.

No matter what you do, all the best OP!!!

Yeah, that's a men's group, innit? Look for the real feminists. If you go along to this misnamed group, they'll be the quiet, watchful ones. Or they might bring banners and get thrown out!

“then I would try to set up my own ACTUAL feminist group.“

This would be the ideal. Is your job at risk if you voice your objections to these dickpanderers?

It's like in The Walking Dead. These people have been bitten already, there's nothing you can do. Save your strength for another fight.

Oh yes, what a beautiful analogy.

Ooh, I know.
You could ask for more clarity on what counts as exclusionary behaviour. To help them clarify you could send them a list of feminist/common sense statements and ask which ones you would be allowed to say. Get them to put a cross by the unsayable ones.

Are you sure it’s not the Un-feminist society?

I've lifted this from another thread courtesy of Ereshkigalangcleg

"I am suddenly reminded of the joke about playing chess with a pigeon - Never play chess with a pigeon. It will crap all over the board then strut around with its chest puffed out thinking it's won.

I'd be inclined to seek out the feminists and women who are organising quietly behind the scenes. They'll be there - we're everywhere at the moment in an amazing resurgence of a feminist movement. You've just got to track them down.

OP, do you know why you've been invited? It should give you a clue as to how to respond.

you say you're affiliated to this university, which suggests not deeply entrenched in it
If you are fairly confident no one in the group can harm you professionally or personally, and you have the time and emotional resilience I would say go. I truly believe that NO ONE really thinks TWAW or any of this bullshit, whatever you go and say may be the nudge they need to be honest with themselves
and maybe with each other
who knows, you may start a TERFY snowball
it could be you, OP, that starts the landslide

Any exclusionary behaviour towards LGBTQIA+' will not be tolerated , protecting the rights of vulnerable women is intrinsically unfeminist, and you need to read some mansplaining in advance.

Yes Chacha, that’s definitely going to be an open-minded meeting of well-informed academic feminists.

I don’t go to LGBT meetings and say the debate isn’t inclusive of heterosexuals or BAME groups and say you’re excluding white people or to feminist meetings and ask why we’re not talking about donkey sanctuaries because that makes no sense and I’m not a twat.

I would go because I'm nosy and want to know what's being said. And then I would try to set up my own ACTUAL feminist group. Best of luck whatever you do!

Sounds like a complete waste of time, especially if you don't have the energy to argue with them. If they get an inkling you might be a 'terf' it is possible they might make your experience at university a bit difficult by spreading rumours about you around or something. They don't sound like the sort of people who would be up for hearing differences of opinion.

It's a shame that there's no room for debate and open minded discussions for young people at universities these days.

Unless you want to start your own secret feminist group and carefully find like minded women who are up for reading and discussing women-centered topics.

I would go.

Exactly what do they mean by "will not be tolerated" - what do they intend to do?
What do they mean by "exclusionary behaviour"?

At my DS's university, many of the students are getting heartily sick of this kind of thing. These people really have shot themselves in the foot with their "no debate" nonsense.

I'd like to request that if you have the energy you use the opportunity. The organisers and the people that attend aren't all going to have identical views, and you can show another side to / version of feminism that might be of use to some of the women there.

Feminism doesn’t prioritise the view of men @ChaChaCha2012 that’s kind of the point.

@FeministFatale if you don’t have the energy please don’t do it you’re there to get your future sorted and that is a feminist statement in itself.

It's an evening of your life you'll never get back. I'd swerve it.

Or, since they have several topics up for discussion, you could pre-emptively suggest a paper about women being adversly affected by coronavirus (the multiple load of home working, home schooling, homework, being everyone's emotional support person) and see if you could filibuster so long it ate into the 99% of the evening they had earmarked for discussing trans issues.

It's what I did on our equality and diversity course at work - kept bringing the discussion back to the poor levels of representation of BAME employees in our company, disability issues etc.