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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another Labour councillor resigns over Cambridge City Council's transgender policies

132 replies

StandWitch · 23/10/2020 14:39

See www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/labour-councillor-kevin-price-resigns-from-cambridge-city-council-over-transgender-rights-motion-9127531/ and cf. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3322389-labour-councillor-quits-in-row-over-facilities-for-trans-people-the-times

A Labour councillor of 10 years and former deputy leader at Cambridge City Council has resigned over a motion on transgender rights.

The motion, brought by the Liberal Democrats to a session of the full council on Thursday (October 22), began with the words: “Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Non-binary individuals are non-binary.”

It is quite possible that the previous shenanigans is what led to his resignation as deputy leader in 2018 www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/news/deputy-leader-of-cambridge-city-council-stands-down-9051099/ as the dates are the same

The motion, brought by the Liberal Democrats to a session of the full council on Thursday (October 22), began with the words: “Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Non-binary individuals are non-binary.”

Kevin Price , who represented King’s Hedges for the Labour party, said he could not support those words, saying they would “send a chill down the spines” of “many women,” and saying it is “foolish to pretend” there are not widely different views or concerns about women’s rights.

He said he has not voted against a Labour motion in his 10 years on the council, and said he did not intend to break that “principle”, and instead announced his resignation to the meeting, saying there are times when conscience “must be weighed against the pull of party”.

A second Labour councillor, Carina O'Reilly has been targeted by TRAs www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/two-cambridge-labour-councillors-accused-19019555

She dared to retweet JK Rowling.

There is some detail on the council's motion here:

democracy.cambridge.gov.uk/documents/b15527/Information%20Pack%2022nd-Oct-2020%2018.00%20Council.pdf?T=9

Facilitating and strongly encouraging all Councillors to attend
Safer Spaces training
Safer Spaces training for councillors was delivered on 24th February
2020 for the first time and officers can run further sessions. Officers
have also been asked by Cllr Smith to book transgender awareness
training for councillors. The council also provides 2 training sessions on transgender awareness per year for staff delivered by The Kite Trust.

There is also something about consulting groups about which Pride flag they want flown.

Essentially this motion was to object to the government not making a new GRA.

OP posts:
DonkeySkin · 27/10/2020 13:02

The problem for Kevin is that 'trans' is not a matter of opinion, but a protected category of person. I know that in the UK it's technically 'gender reassignment' that is protected, but the way it works socially and politically is that simply claiming transgender status means you can lay claim to the moral and legal force of protected status, akin to racial discrimination.

So it's not simply a matter of Kevin holding a different opinion of sex and gender. None of us is entitled to hold a different opinion on sex and gender anymore, because now that transgender status is enshrined in law, people who claim that status have the 'right' to force everyone else to go along with gender identity theory. If we express doubts about it in any forum, then they can claim that this harms their dignity and safety and the doubter can be sacked.

This has been demonstrated in the employment courts already, first with the Christian doctor David Mackereth and then with Maya Forstater's case. In both cases, the tribunals found that it was right that they were sacked for expressing disbelief in the notion that humans can change sex. So sadly I can't see Clare standing up for Kevin here. Disbelief in transgender ideology has already been effectively outlawed for anyone who wants to remain employed or employable in the future.

It's grim stuff and demonstrates that rather than call for a 'balancing of rights', feminists must oppose the notion that claiming transgender status should come with any extra legal protections at all. The right to present in the way one wants, to dress or act in a manner considered non-typical for one's sex without suffering discrimination, yes - these should be protected. But the 'right' to be treated as a sex which you are not - this is actually an unreasonable demand, one that infringes on others' rights, most especially the right to speak truthfully about reality. If we can't undo the enshrining of that pseudo-right in law, then I really think all other resistance is going to be futile.

ExtremeWeatherScenarios · 27/10/2020 12:58

I have written to Clare College as I am disgusted with the behaviour of the students. Clearly they failed to read the recent department for education guidance.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 27/10/2020 12:52

I've just written a card to Kevin thanking him for his stance.

I want to email Clare to express my concerns, should I email the Master or is there someone else I should contact?

ValancyRedfern · 27/10/2020 12:50

I went to Clare College. Planning some serious letter writing. I'm so appalled and upset.

boatyardblues · 27/10/2020 12:40

James’ article is currently #1 most read article on the Spectator’s website. Seeing as there’s only 6 FWRers + socks Wink, it must be reaching a wider audience.

FindTheTruth · 27/10/2020 12:40

someone mentions 4 vacant seats...

Another Labour councillor resigns over Cambridge City Council's transgender policies
FindTheTruth · 27/10/2020 12:35

Article: Shame on the Cambridge students hounding Kevin Price
www.spectator.co.uk/article/shame-on-the-cambridge-students-hounding-kevin-price

FairFridaythe13th · 27/10/2020 10:52

And maybe set up a petition to have the lead bullies sent down (is that the expression)? That would be amusing... Same for the Edinburgh kindergarten Uni Labour etc group.

Tanith · 27/10/2020 10:50

I hope the other students who do appreciate and like Kevin will stand up to this and show their support for him.

I'm sure they will Smile

RoyalCorgi · 27/10/2020 10:44

James Kirkup is on the case:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-trans-debate-could-cost-this-cambridge-porter-his-job?

Hopegrows54 · 27/10/2020 10:43

I hope the other students who do appreciate and like Kevin will stand up to this and show their support for him.

Tanith · 27/10/2020 10:34

No one - no one - had thought to tell any of the college boatmen about the Weill's disease outbreak. Absolutely encapsulated the attitude the average student had to the staff.

I don't agree. Students would assume that the boatmen had been informed by the university. It was a failure on the part of the university.

Regarding Kevin Price, this is very interesting because I have it on good authority that most of the Clare students knew nothing about that statement. The Students Union LGBTQ+ appears to have sent it without reference to them.

Kevin Price is well liked by the students themselves. They recognise that he and his colleagues work hard to keep them safe and supported.
Most ordinary students at Cambridge are hardworking (they have to be) and understand how lucky they are to be there. Not all are privileged or well off by any means.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 26/10/2020 21:54

No one - no one - had thought to tell any of the college boatmen about the Weill's disease outbreak. Absolutely encapsulated the attitude the average student had to the staff.

Truly sickening, Cara. The undisguised women-hating may be excitingly new, but the classism never went away.

dumpling23 · 26/10/2020 21:46

Does anyone know how to contact Kevin Price? I'd like to send him a card to thank him.

Apparently he's a porter at Clare College, so anything addressed to him at the college address (Clare College Trinity Lane Cambridge CB2 1TL) will get to him.

And yes - Kings Hedges ward includes a large council estate - so yes, he represented many people struggling to to put food on the table. Absolutely mind blowing that students at the college (overwhelming NOT from the kinds of families who live in places like Kings Hedges or whose parents work as porters) are now trying to get the man sacked. We are well and truly through the looking glass.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 26/10/2020 21:45

Kendal affirmed that all these instances show a continued “failure to centre trans people”, alongside the fact that trans students “are not being prioritised as they should be”.

Oh no! The true crime is revealed: failure to centre trans people. We should all be ashamed of ourselves. Biscuit

EmmaGrundyForPM · 26/10/2020 19:52

@CaraDuneRedux

Good for Cambridge rad fems.

And what little shits those students are. Privileged little shits trying to get a porter sacked FFS!

(The classism among Cambridge students towards the college staff has to be seen to be believed. Many years ago, there was a huge fuss about Weill's disease in the river water, with all of the college boat clubs being warned to tell rowers to cover cuts and blisters with waterproof plasters. I was down at the boat sheds a few days later getting a single scull out, and our boat man was working on one of the boats, cut his hand and went to rinse it off in the water - I shrieked no, then explained. He was horrified. No one - no one - had thought to tell any of the college boatmen about the Weill's disease outbreak. Absolutely encapsulated the attitude the average student had to the staff.)

This attitude still prevails.

I read an article last week.about a female professor at St John's and how she coped during lockdown. She is obviously some kind of superwoman - she submitted her manuscript for a book on deadline and then gave birth to.her fourth child by cs a few hours later.... returned to teach via Zoom when baby was 10 days old. Lovely story, and in it it mentioned that her husband is a Porter at St John's.
I was telling an (ex Cambridge) friend about this and she said in disbelief "a professor married a ^porter^ as though it was unthinkable. Shades of Upstairs Downstairs

PaleBlueMoonlight · 26/10/2020 19:44

This is awful. Truly awful. We need to write to Clare.

RozWatching · 26/10/2020 19:39

That is heartening to read from camradfems, but some of these maladjusted little shits are future decision-makers.
And they have their supporters. Was it Rayner or Creasy who said that they are keeping the seat warm for Madigan?

FairFridaythe13th · 26/10/2020 19:38

Of course they really need to realise that on these days, any future potential employer will google them. Seeing a name gleefully calling for someone to lose their job because they said something they didn’t like - well I know I’d be put well off. Who wants like that on the payroll?

CaraDuneRedux · 26/10/2020 19:30

Good for Cambridge rad fems.

And what little shits those students are. Privileged little shits trying to get a porter sacked FFS!

(The classism among Cambridge students towards the college staff has to be seen to be believed. Many years ago, there was a huge fuss about Weill's disease in the river water, with all of the college boat clubs being warned to tell rowers to cover cuts and blisters with waterproof plasters. I was down at the boat sheds a few days later getting a single scull out, and our boat man was working on one of the boats, cut his hand and went to rinse it off in the water - I shrieked no, then explained. He was horrified. No one - no one - had thought to tell any of the college boatmen about the Weill's disease outbreak. Absolutely encapsulated the attitude the average student had to the staff.)

EmmaGrundyForPM · 26/10/2020 19:21

@RozWatching I've just seen that in Varsity as well.
We are in South Cambs but used to live in the City. What has happened is appalling. I really admire Kevin.

NonCisWoman · 26/10/2020 19:21

What nasty little students they are. Angry

JulesJules · 26/10/2020 19:10

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

FairFridaythe13th · 26/10/2020 19:08

It’s true that the young really don't mature until way after leaving education.

I remember in my early 20s there were redundancies all over the place and I just sailed through, assuming that everyone would just like off savings before they got a new job (yes? Just like that).

Now my stomach lurches whenever someone tells me that they are ‘at risk’. I worry about their rent, how they will manage bills, will they get a now job and will they have to take a pay cut.

The grown ups need to take back control.

BaronessWrongCrowd · 26/10/2020 18:57

What nasty little shiHalloween AngryHalloween Envy those students are. I honestly hope that someone does the same to them.

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