Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

FFS, apparently I have to explain the patriarchy

34 replies

artisanparsnips · 22/10/2020 18:41

A toolkit was recently launched for consultations with young people as part of planning. I read it and called them out on the fact that it said nothing at all about sex, and that this was something which should not be ignored in any discussion of the public realm.

I did get a couple of sensible replies, but a junior academic involved sent me back an email which included this gem:

In the toolkit there is a specific focus on working with youth workers and balancing the voices of the young people internally, so I guess it will be up to the team applying the toolkit to make sure that there is an equal representation in the group of young people they convene.

"May I ask, which methods do you feel would disenfranchise girls? I am really interested to understand why you think boys would be potentially overpowering in this process and particularly the way of engagement that you think might not be working well as proposed."

I probably need to say a bit more than just "the patriarchy, stupid" but I might just leave it at that.

OP posts:
ChattyLion · 23/10/2020 08:31

Sounds like the OP has already basically pointed out the issue, you can see that from the young man’s use of words like ‘overpowering’ reflected back from her critique.

I’d say it could point to a lack of common sense, or normal powers of observation, normal levels of imagination and empathy, or to entitlement, or the want to further the patriarchy, or perhaps to stupidity, if a person can’t understand (or challenges) women pointing out the potential for sexism.

Pyewhacket · 23/10/2020 03:07

@fluro

Look for some research that supports your claim that women’s voices might be silenced in this process. Not everyone is a feminist (I am) - you need to be able to justify your point in a better way than telling someone they are stupid.
This, totally.
fluro · 23/10/2020 03:03

Look for some research that supports your claim that women’s voices might be silenced in this process. Not everyone is a feminist (I am) - you need to be able to justify your point in a better way than telling someone they are stupid.

ChattyLion · 23/10/2020 02:54

Well, they’re clearly prattish if they don’t get the point from what you’ve already said.. but as an academic perhaps they would get something out of reading Man Made Language by Dale Spender or In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan, to start considerIng what some of the issues they should be taking into account might be.

Or google academic papers on Feminist Strategies for Interviewing and Analysis..
There’s absolutely loads of work out there on this area, this colleague just needs to want to consider the problems.

DidoLamenting · 23/10/2020 00:49

@artisanparsnips

A toolkit was recently launched for consultations with young people as part of planning. I read it and called them out on the fact that it said nothing at all about sex, and that this was something which should not be ignored in any discussion of the public realm.

I did get a couple of sensible replies, but a junior academic involved sent me back an email which included this gem:

In the toolkit there is a specific focus on working with youth workers and balancing the voices of the young people internally, so I guess it will be up to the team applying the toolkit to make sure that there is an equal representation in the group of young people they convene.

"May I ask, which methods do you feel would disenfranchise girls? I am really interested to understand why you think boys would be potentially overpowering in this process and particularly the way of engagement that you think might not be working well as proposed."

I probably need to say a bit more than just "the patriarchy, stupid" but I might just leave it at that.

Well maybe I'm stupid too but your post is laden with jargon. It reads like an job advert in The Guardian. It's not clear to me what you are trying to achieve although presumably it is clearer if one is actively involved.

Again maybe I'm stupid too but the question you are taking exception to is clearer than most of your post.

You can of course reply "it's the patriarchy stupid". It won't be in the least bit helpful to the questioner or advancing what you are trying to do but I'm sure you'll feel better.

raddledoldmisanthropist · 23/10/2020 00:01

What does he/she mean by methods?

It's hard to tell without knowing what the consultaions are about and what your suggestion was but I think they are asking for specific feedback on the consultation methods proposed and why these might not pick up women's voices equally (e.g. if it's a group discussion are you thinking girls might be spoken over?).

If it's not private, perhaps you could just post your calling out and their reply?

I don't think them asking for specifics is a bad thing myself.

Original poster
artisanparsnips · 22/10/2020 19:01

Cat - check
Wine - check

If anyone can tell me how to train the cat to open wine, though, please do. It's going to be easier than doing this.

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 22/10/2020 18:57

This junior academic is referring to the methods though, rather than the oversight of not recognising sex. What does he/she mean by methods? Is this person just being obtuse?

There are many 'methods' to apply the patriarchy but if you don't know what the patriarchy is it's going to be a long email and a long night.

I hope there is a wine-pawing cat nearby and she's reaching for the bottle openers

(Pawing/Pouring...geddit?!)

AmandaHoldensLips · 22/10/2020 18:43

I think it's just best to wear a SMASH THE PATRIARCHY t-shirt and let people work it out for themselves. If that fails, wear the t-shirt while handing out leaflets and shouting through a megaphone.

Having a supportive cat at home waiting for you with wine also helps.