BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

It was then referred to the Office of the Independent Adjudicator for Higher Education who backed the University.

Yes, the Adjudicator said it was "reasonable" for the university to reach the conclusions it did. These conclusions were that the political implications of publishing research that might be seen as controversial and lead to both university and researcher being attacked for it was too big of a risk.

You claimed it was rejected because the research would have been low quality. That was not raised as a concern at any point in this dispute. That's because James Caspian wasn't just a genuine supporter of people who identify as trans but also someone with many years experience in the field of psychotherapy and this patient group. I'm not sure there are a lot of people with the same credentials.

For anyone who cares to know, James Caspian was denied permission to bring a judicial review on technical grounds, not on the subject matter itself (applying for a JR outside of the time limit and applying for a JR against the wrong institution).

" both ends view gender roles and norms as ultimately essentialist.*

I don't know a single trans person who believes that."

Quote from another thread about transwomen in sport.
" We think like women
We feel like women
We act like women
We dress like women "

But can you not see that not everyone claiming to be under the trans umbrella is like you? You are advocating for some very dodgy fellow-travellers. The people on here who are protesting aren't protesting about you personally but about all those chancers and undesirables - and there are far too many of them - who hang on your coat tails.

The issue of compelled speech is not just about politeness. It's more about compulsion. It's more about being able to see how people with a penis feel entitled to push around people without.

You didn't answer the question though JJ

'I'd be interested in how you think women could do better when the odds are stacked against them so heavily. Where did the women in Poland, for example, go wrong? What's your advice to them ?'

But I do have noticed that there is a wider diffuse sense of the class women as not somehow mattering very much. The expectation is that we will be kind and permeable in our political activism and that we will put the needs of others first and that we will privilege other causes over feminism. So when that expectation fails to materialise, great anger erupts.

I think basing your entire strategy to save women from extinction on suing people, letter writing and lobbying MPs is frightfully middle class.

I am not sure what you think women should actually be doing about it in this time of covid. Protest in the streets? Ok, shall I bring my child too? Can I afford to miss a day’s pay when finances are so risky? You realise just how many women are carers whether for old, young or just in need. .... yes ... so middle class indeed.

Again and again you continue to prove just how little you actually know about women and our lives. Please do keep it coming though, this has been a most enlightening thread.

both ends view gender roles and norms as ultimately essentialist.

I don't know a single trans person who believes that.

I think Poland should be a stark warning to anyone who believes allying with the religious right against trans people is a good idea.

Women's rights are always very hard to fight for and are at risk when they are won, JJ.

Do you read the news around what women are fighting for around the world, JJ?

I'd be interested in how you think women could do better when the odds are stacked against them so heavily. Where did the women in Poland, for example, go wrong? What's your advice to them ?

The problem is that some people don't see women as real people and our oppression as a legitimate cause. Some of the comments, we could be in a 70s snooker club.

Have we had “white feminism” yet? Eyes down for a full house! (Bingo is definitely not middle class)

I find the suggestion that women on here don't actually care about women really shit tbh.

I've been posting on MN for about 14 years, and was in the conversation when this board was set up.

Before this topic came up- which challenges women on a fundamental level (removing our words) there were a host of topics.

It's sad that this one dominates now with so much shit going on around the world for women and girls.

But it has to because it's impossible even to discuss these issues if we can't make ourselves as a group. A group that has experienced serious systematic oppression all over the world for as long as anyone can remember, and numbers half the population.

It's a nasty way to smear women many of whom have been active in women's rights for years.

And to make that suggestion shows more about the person who said it than anything.

Cara

Yeah, crossposted, and I don't think much of that answer. And you clearly know absolutely nothing about campaigning, jj, if you dismiss perfectly ordinary campaigning tactics as "middle-class".

you could make it much easier on my valet and give me an answer.

That's not how jj works. You will probably get an "answer" that is a deflection in the form of a question about something else.

I can live with being thought of as middle class (even though I come from a working class background and family). It's just another thing male people throw at women to dismiss what they say and as such I ignore along with all the other misogyny. Men never seem to be dismissed as middle class, do they? Even though many TRAs and their supporters are more middle class than me, from what I can see. Luxury belief.

SophocliesTheFox I shall order my valet to warm my slippers, if I have to wait around before I retire for the evening.

jj you could make it much easier on my valet and give me an answer. Then I can retire to bed before my feet get cold.

Take pity on my valet, and do, do tell me: what is "middle class" about a woman prisoner who was raped by a male prisoner taking her case to judicial review?

I'm not aware that was a case that originated from the gender critical movement. I must have missed the crowdfunder.

Perhaps you're just not all that well informed?

A woman prisoner suing the Home Office is clearly not. And whilst I haven't read the exact details of the case from what I've seen I hope she wins.

I am suddenly reminded of the joke about playing chess with a pigeon - "Never play chess with a pigeon. It will crap all over the board then strut around with its chest puffed out thinking it's won."

It reminds me of certain people on this thread who seem to view their opinions as the unassailable authority on absolutely everything.

You’re right, midgebabe. I don’t mean to make light of this, at all. This whole thread has gone quite preposterous and I can’t see any way it could be made productive at all.