BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

I say kitchen roll myself

Absolutely.

Luckily I don't give a fuck what jj thinks. I've been insulted by better.

Frightfully?

'Frightfully middle class' sounds so much like someone sneering at a person who says serviette instead of napkin, doesn't it?

In fairness jj isn't saying we are middle class. Jj is saying we are...ahem, 'frightfully middle class'

Men don't like uppity, educated women.

There was a similar refrain with JK Rowling. She was too rich, too powerful, too well known.

It's long been noted that the only people TRAs think should be able to speak are those with no knowledge, no power, no following and no voice.

Funny that.

Middle class a slur? it is rather funny that I too feel like I have moved up.

*dig

Me too Midge. It's a little dog about women who are better than they ought to be, as the old saying goes.

Men don't like uppity, educated women.

Middle class a slur? Damn I read it as a compliment, I've moved up in the world and am proud of my achievements

Middle class is a funny kind of slur. I don't see many prominent working class transwomen...

I just think it’s enormously helpful to be underestimated. If people think that MN is a silly, frivolous place where bubble headed mummies get in a tizz about weaning, then fine - let them think that. If they also believe that when we do manage to wrench our eyes away from the contents of a nappy and are introduced to the concept of women’s rights being important, that all we do is get impotently “hysterical” about it on here- then good! Let them think that, too

Oh, I see what you mean, Sophocles! I agree! 😁

Gosh, I also didn't realise I was a Russian Bot. This is a bit of a revelation.

Myvisions I could only think of that, too. I hoped the fount of knowledge known as JJ would enlighten me but alas, answer slithering appears to be in full operation.

However, over the last year I've written to politicians. I've challenged organisations over their policies. I have done my best not to get sacked so I've been able to donate money to various crowdfunders. I've written letters of support to people in the public eye who have been brave enough to speak up on this issue. I post on here in the hope that more people will find out what's going on. I share stuff on other platforms to try and raise awareness of the conflict between trans rights and women's rights.

I think jj's attack on these things as being middle class was because he knows they're having an effect. The GRA is only going to have small amendments, and crucially, self ID isn't happening. Schools and councils have been forced to withdraw illegal and harmful guidance. jj would much rather see us impotently waving banners, shouting slogans, rioting and getting arrested (he has said more than once how disappointed he is that we're not all in prison).

And its once again back to

Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Taking away a person's name has always been a way to put people in their place and existed in Britain until relatively recently.

www.pbs.org/manorhouse/edwardianlife/family_address.html

So hardly surprising that when you wish to oppress a group the first thing you do is remove their right to define themselves and impose a definition on them.

What does the situation in Poland have to do with trans people? Are abortion rights anti-trans, somehow? I don't get it. It's got a vague threat like quality, that statement, yet I cannot get the ends to pull together to make sense.

I'd think that abortion rights are anti-trans because transwomen can't have abortions? Something like that anyway.

Biological women are being redefined as..
Cervix havers
Menstruaters
People with Virginia’s
Cis women
Gender critical women who don’t buy into these labels are called
TERFs
Bigot’s
Transphobic
For this ideology to continue .. we can never challenge men who identify as being a woman, we are expected to just call them women.. no other labels .. allow them into all protected women/girls spaces, our sports and just shut up about it. .. hmmm .. let’s see if actual biological women will accept that when real women realise what is happening...

Yy @midgebabe - there's a great chapter on this in Why Women Are Blamed For Everything.

Girlguiding's Girls' Attitudes Survey 2017 found 64% of girls aged 13-21 had
experienced sexual violence or sexual harassment at school or college in the past
year. This included 39% having their bra strap pulled by a boy and 27% having
their skirts pulled up within the last week. ( quote from Gov UK report on sexual harassment in schools and colleges)

Oh, I completely agree that this is a great resource, don’t get me wrong edge. I’m absolutely not doing it down.

I just think it’s enormously helpful to be underestimated. If people think that MN is a silly, frivolous place where bubble headed mummies get in a tizz about weaning, then fine - let them think that. If they also believe that when we do manage to wrench our eyes away from the contents of a nappy and are introduced to the concept of women’s rights being important, that all we do is get impotently “hysterical” about it on here- then good! Let them think that, too.

If people believe that MN is the Prosecco stormfront and it’s actually full of Russian bots pretending to be ordinary British women, then fine, whatever. It’s all part of that weird phenomenon that MN has always been - simultaneously irrelevant and monstrously threatening - women talking together have always had that power, in men’s eyes.

We know that none of that is really true and can get on with doing the work- here and elsewhere.

Sexist treatment does go on in schools. It may be less legal and more covert but

Girls assaulted. Sex based Uniform rules because the males find things distracting. Entire years with no female a level physics students

Anyway, I don't go on marches. I wasn't interested in wearing a pussy hat. I'm not sure marches are particularly effective anyway (did it stop the war?), and I'm not convinced that everything the suffragettes did helped their cause.

However, over the last year I've written to politicians. I've challenged organisations over their policies. I have done my best not to get sacked so I've been able to donate money to various crowdfunders. I've written letters of support to people in the public eye who have been brave enough to speak up on this issue. I post on here in the hope that more people will find out what's going on. I share stuff on other platforms to try and raise awareness of the conflict between trans rights and women's rights.

Yeah, perhaps I could take to the streets and go on a hunger strike. On balance, I think these actions are probably more effective.

This is partly due to the partial successes of the second wave of feminism which means that most of the sexist treatment that used to occur in schools and education is no longer there

I don't know about anyone else, but while my pesky female socialisation held me back a bit, it wasn't really until I became a mother that I started experiencing glaring, undeniable great lumps of discrimination

I just don't understand any of this.

JJ do you think there should be a word to describe to 50 % of the world's population who when they're born everyone says 'it's a girl'. Who have been oppressed globally and still are for as long as anyone can remember. What do you think this group should be called?

Every human society on the planet knows what woman, girl, are. In all the languages. Sex is the most basic characteristic that we note of each other.

Are we allowed a word? What is it?

'if you don't know that then that's probably because you're pretty gender conforming and so it's never happened to you'

Erm no, lots of women become feminists because we notice gender and struggle against it.

We could have been allies. Why push so far? To take our words? The things we have fought for to have a chance? Why?