BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

what guilted planet are you living on

Well the world peace post reminded me of a beauty pageant winner

How about the guarantee of a refuge place in a male free space immediately for anyone who needs it? And let refuge workers and residents decide how best to manage that, not a bunch of posh outsiders sticking their nose into working class affairs.

Why do you think people come onto these feminist boards?

Do you honestly, seriously think that many of the women here have not needed recourse to a shelter? Rape counselling? Psychiatric care?

What gilded planet are you living on??

How about the guarantee of a refuge place in a male free space immediately for anyone who needs it?

Pleased to see you agree with us on this point at least.

Great. No tedious arguments about inner essences or pronouns for me. Physical, reality based single sex provision and protection and happy days, or closer to it.

Glad we've got that sorted then.

You are not just gambling the lives of trans people with the ferocity of this campaign and the willingness to stand with the conservative right. Every anti-Trans article in Quilette, Breitbart and even The Spectator brings us closer to the situation women and LGBT people face in Poland. That's precisely why the right are giving you so much support. They think you are helping them and sadly I suspect they are correct.

Honestly, this is just a stupid comment. One among many. Garbage like this is all over Twitter. Shame it's polluting FWR now too.

It's also a very very long list of things that women must sort out in societies all over the world where to a greater or lesser extent we are denied power/ a voice,

Before we can think about women. And by then we definitely won't have a name for ourselves at all.

JJ I hope you raise all these social issues on male dominated forums as well.

The meaning of words do matter

I shall redefine poverty to mean having more than enough to live on.

Poverty problems solved . Yeah!

And secondly, you have no idea what else the women here campaign for. None.

This thread is about the insidious use of pronouns to intimidate people.

If you want to talk about something else start another thread.

But for the love of God, and your own mental health, you should stop telling women what to do. We're not your support humans, we're not there to validate you, your thoughts, or your politics.

Erm I can't work out if we're supposed to be lefties or not.

The fact that JJ assumes no women on these boards gives a toss about the social issues they mentioned in their previous post really shows that JJ is engaged in fighting with some kind of imaginary character they've created in their head, and has no ability to comprehend that any woman here is not a carbon copy of that character.

Great, a male free space for anyone who needs it is exactly what women want.

And yes, an end to violence and poverty would be nice, and systems in place to protect the weakest and most vulnerable until we reach that wonderful future. And I think that the more women's voice , of all and every class, race, religion etc etc, are heard, the closer we will get to this future.

And I have to say this, but if you think anyone who wants a male free space should get it, you are being transphobic.

So please explain why women fighting to maintain male free spaces is so horrific, given that you have said they should exist?

Could you please explain why women fighting to prevent medical treatment of children that may cause them lifelong problems and not provide a cure for their problems is not supporting the weakest and most vulnerable in our society ?

Has someone been telling lies to you about the people on mumsnet?

How about the guarantee of a refuge place in a male free space immediately for anyone who needs it? And let refuge workers and residents decide how best to manage that, not a bunch of posh outsiders sticking their nose into working class affairs.

Thank you in for supporting single sex spaces for women with no male bodied people allowed.!!!!

So we've already seen that some middle class gender critical activists are prepared to fuck over poor women in their quest to own the trans.

jj - please could you define what you mean by middle class? You seem to be using it as a perjorative term and have implied that disabled women, single mothers or unemployed women cannot be middle class so I am very confused as to what you mean by it and why you are so anti what you perceive to be that group of people.

By some measures I am probably middle class but we (my husband and I) have worked extremely hard to get where we are - does that make us bad people? We have provided employment for people in the past and treated them very well - does that make us bad people?

I vote according to who I think runs the country most effectively for as many people as possible - does that make me a bad person?

You seem to be putting a lot of blame for the women's rights activism on conservative and right wing politics but it is the left and liberals that are vociferously abandoning, silencing and expelling women at all turns and pushing them away from the left - so how is that the fault of 'the right' and why does 'the right' standing up for women's rights make them bad people?

If women who have the job security, confidence and time to try and stand up for the most disadvantaged women in prisons who literally have no voice and the women affected by Dissociative Identity Disorder (mentioned on another post this morning) and the young girls and lesbians who are being bullied - does that make them bad people?
I want my daughters and other people's daughters to be able to grow up with access to safe female only spaces and provision, to enjoy their sports and compete safely and fairly, to not be encouraged to have surgery and hormone treatment if they don't conform to sterotypes, for their careers to be supported and discrimination against them minimised rather than encouraged.

I think it was you on another thread that was vehemently anti-bosses? If it was you - I think it might help your understanding if you did some basic reading on how an economy runs and how essential bosses are as well as workers. I think this should be covered far better in schools - I have friends who have no idea how a national economy functions - we need public and private sectors, we need workers and bosses, we need entrepreneurs and doers.

What exactly is your cause?

How about the guarantee of a refuge place in a male free space immediately for anyone who needs it? And let refuge workers and residents decide how best to manage that, not a bunch of posh outsiders sticking their nose into working class affairs. And let's work towards making refuges unnecessary and making the bastard responsible to e the one who loses his home? How about safe and humane prisons for everyone and more important putting less working class women in prison especially for non violent offences? In fact how about a completely new system that is less about punishing the poorest and only to protect us from truly dangerous people? How about a society with adequate social security so people aren't driven into mental ill health, poverty, and the associated risks of addiction and crime? How about safe accessible toilet provision that caters to everyone, including lone parents or those who have carer needs? How about increased funding for women's healthcare services and trans healthcare? How about no need for homeless hostels at all whether single sex or not because there are no homeless people? How about worrying about and fighting for the things our class desperately needs to live freely without need and with dignity for all without getting drawn into endless unwinnable arguments about pronouns and what words mean whilst middle class Tories pull our fucking strings.

We're all from different backgrounds with differing life experiences but we're united on this issue.

You are right, it is really nice to see this. I appreciate you saying you like seeing different people's backgrounds. I think I just said that in a bit of a stroppy way because it almost felt like a need to justify ourselves in a way that isn't necessary.

My mother wasn't disabled, and would probably have knocked him down with her handbag and accidentally stepped on him. She was a formidable lady who gave no fucks.

My paraplegic M-i-L carried a police whistle for emergencies and would have used it, I suspect.

Then you have my solidarity. I think working class women and working class trans/LGB people fighting together for the resources we need to ensure safe and adequate services for us all is probably the only way out of this conflict for those on the left. And the last thing those on the right want is the end of this conflict and they will attempt to sabotage any moves towards resolution or compromise.

How about you show solidarity by leaving the Morning Star alone then? It's not standing up for women now, and why is that?

P.S. my mother was disabled and needed access to toilets when she went out. If she'd seen an Alex Drummond in a public toilet, that would have meant she couldn't go any distance from her flat.

Try United Voice of the World Union who have been organising mostly with migrant cleaners, hotel workers and most recently VAWG sector workers and have won a string of impressive victories.

jj1968
Then you have my solidarity. I think working class women and working class trans/LGB people fighting together for the resources we need to ensure safe and adequate services for us all is probably the only way out of this conflict for those on the left. And the last thing those on the right want is the end of this conflict

Hang on: you were inveighing against us as "middle class lefties" a couple of pages ago. Make up your mind!

So confused as to why you think this is a class issue?

Do you think that working class women are more sympathetic to your cause?

What exactly is your cause?
For transpeople to be treated with respect, and facilities put in place to ensure they can live safe a full lives ?

Or for transwomen to be allowed access to the facilities put in place to ensure women can live safe and full lives, thus depriving women ?

Many here would support the former

Yes, the, er, solidarity is slipping off your posts like something from a shovel, I would say. I'm sure we're all waiting for the resurgence of a union movement with women's rights in the vanguard.

Any minute now...

My very working-class mother couldn't use a public toilet if a male cleaner was present, even when my adult self was accompanying her. If she had been on a ward where an obvious male like Alex Drummond had been admitted, she would have self-discharged unless she was physically unable to leave, even if it jeopardised her physical health.

I'm not going to avoid standing up for her rights to access the NHS, just because it means writing to a conservative MP.

Just terf in general - 25% rise.

Called terf by someone with pronouns in the bio? - 50%

Called terf by a beard- 75%

Beard and pronouns in the bio? Ding ding ding. 100%

🤑🤑🤑🤑

I bathe in my earnings in my council flat bath that I don't even fit in despite only been 5ft 4 😆