BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

Yes, I don't think you would've seen those replies year ago. So many more people are fully cognisant of the issues now.

Love this response to ' It takes nothing from you to be considered towards others and use their preferred pronouns' on the Bitesize facebook page:

Yes it does. Incorrect pronouns have real life consequences socially, culturally, legally, medically. It is forcing your belief system on others and forcing us to capitulate to your belief system through our speech. No. Sex matters, and pronouns are sex based and obfuscating sex causes real problems. It is not my responsibility to validate your subjective feelings about yourself or uphold your beliefs

The FB page is brilliant-there’s the odd crazy trans activist there, trotting out their catchphrases such as “no one cares what’s in your pants” and posting that scientific American article. But unlike three years ago there are reems of people shutting them down

Datun the FB page is very cheering!

"Remember that just because a person uses certain pronouns at one point doesn’t mean they can’t change their mind."

Remember that if you're going to use a pronoun that people don't usually associate with your sex, you can always change your mind on a whim. It's best to do this when all your classmates seem like they've got your pronouns right and are comfortable using them. This keeps everyone on their toes and makes sure everyone always feels slightly on edge. It also ensures that the conversation always revolves around you!

No one is having it on their Facebook page.

Fortunately, quite a few women have read the DFE advice, and are pointing out how they are in breach of it.

www.facebook.com/bbcbitesize/posts/3865530130123944

@Bessica1970

Why should anyone be required to put that sort of emotional work into someone else’s comfort/happiness, especially if they barely know them? Is it a reasonable expectation, or is in an imposition?
Why is it then when confronted with various explanations that don’t fit their opinion, instead of engaging and putting forth something a bit more substantial than ‘why can’t you be nice you beastly people?’ they flounce off?

It's a power play, easy enough to see once you take your "be nice", "be kind", "be inclusive", "they're not hurting anyone" female socialisation goggles off.

It hurts me to lie about what I see in front of my eyes. It hurts me to have to second guess myself and monitor my own speech because of it. It hurts me to be forced to accept genderism as "the truth" of the world when in actual fact it is only one way of looking at the things, one that I happen to think is at odds with facts, science and material reality. So no I'm not going to "be kind" in the face of that.

To quote MB I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar.

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zp6ftrd?fbclid=IwAR2Iqm23qX1dLO9_DTYXlIRiU8L8kY56wxNhwjxr7y4UXPlMMNwljrc417M

The link is still there. How dare they teach propaganda as though it's been accepted generally in society? I do not consider expecting people to remember individual chosen pronouns is inclusive. It's adding a massive memory task, I struggle remembering names but recognise someone's sex easily.

Pushing the notion that if you aren't some ghastly 50's stereotype of a girl or a boy then you must be non-binary is regressive, outdated, sexist, homophobic nonsense.

They should he taught tolerance and acceptance fir the perfect bodies and personalities they have.

So glad our children are being taught acceptance and tolerance

They seemed to worry enough to remove the mermaids number....

Not sure what their thoughts patterns are

I'm with CharlieParley. I refuse to be coerced or forced into lying. It's a power grab.

They need to watch Newsnight a little more closely, don't they.

It's very sneaky if the BBC are using the word non-binary, without explaining exactly what it is.

What, precisely, according to them, does not fit in with male or female? Because unless they stop relying on gender stereotyping, they are in flagrant breach of government guidelines.

So let's hear it. What is it, exactly, are they not identifying with?

Breatheandfocus

So identifying as NB is meaningless. It’s like insisting everybody has to call you a special pronoun because you identify as ‘not happy every minute of the day’ or ‘somebody who doesn’t always fancy breakfast’.

So much this.

It's very "I'm so special and you all just conform to the binary", when we've all been dressing how we want and doing whatever non-stereotypical activity or job we fancy. 🙄🙄 Without any special words or validation. In fact probably the opposite...

And no, it doesn't hurt me if Gamma wants to be addressed as ze, but it does hurt me to be forced to comply with Gemma's wishes against my own wishes.

I use sex-based pronouns when discussing a person who isn't there. I find it offensive to be asked to deny my own knowledge of science, my integrity, my honesty and my right to my own beliefs. This is hurtful to me, because it denies me agency in deciding for myself how I interact with people in the absence of Gemma, who seeks to control my behaviour and speech.
Such authoritarian, illiberal thought and speech controls must be resisted.

Which is what I do. I've found it enormously freeing when I finally rejected demands like yours for my surrender to this ideology. And as Barracker wrote in Pronouns are Rohypnol, understanding why your demand is unreasonable, selfish and ultimately damaging to our interests is vital in our fight for women's rights.

(And that is apart from the research and the feminist analysis of the issue which tells us that in a male-dominated world it is not without consequence for women to proclaim their sex, making enforced pronoun announcements a tool for the further discrimination of female people.)

If someone identifies as non-binary, why does that bother so many people?
It reminds me of when gay people were historically vilified because straight people couldn’t handle that not everyone is like them!
It doesn’t hurt you if Gemma wants to be addressed as ze, so why have a problem with it?

It’s nothing like being gay. And the point is that NB people are in fact just like everybody else. Nobody is a 100% representation of feminine or masculine traits. So identifying as NB is meaningless. It’s like insisting everybody has to call you a special pronoun because you identify as ‘not happy every minute of the day’ or ‘somebody who doesn’t always fancy breakfast’.

If I was addressing your hypothetical Gemma, I would call her “you” and her name eg “Gemma, would you like a cup of coffee”.

If other people are talking about Gemma and Gemma isn’t present, Gemma won’t hear the pronouns they’re using so Gemma won’t be made unhappy by them not using “ze”.

Another point is this contrived offence, makes it harder to point out genuine bullying and nastiness, and detracts from it.

The picture is really weird for a children's website IMO? Why do they all look so petulant and navel-gazing?

That picture is not just anywhere either - it is a changing room.

It doesn’t hurt you if Gemma wants to be addressed as ze, so why have a problem with it?

It would be very rude to do that. I would address Gemma as you, which is correct.

I just saw it expressed succinctly in a tweet that went something like this:
My pronoun is I.
If you're talking to me, the pronoun you should use is you.
If you're talking about me, the pronoun you use is none of my damn business.

www.facebook.com/bbcbitesize/posts/3865530130123944

Still up on FB and getting similar pelters...

I think even mermaids have decided there could be as many genders as there are people.... a year or 2 after someone was doxxed or piled on on twitter for saying the same thing...

Do lids have to memorise 66 million pronouns?