BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

So being "rude" is equivalent, thanks for clarifying.

Those are such weird examples.

My married name is my name - fact. Use it, don't use it, I'm not coercing a lie out of you.

An adoptive mother is a mother, again not a lie but just one of the meanings of the word mother - a female person who reared you and has parental responsibility. It's clearly distinct from its other meaning - person who gestated you - and adoptive parents know this and would correct if circumstances required this for example in medical situations. So again, no lie, no coercion.

Gay man and homosexual male are synonyms. You can use either although the latter might be a bit formal for, 'Shall I set Alan up with my friend Sophie?' 'No, Alan is a male homosexual'. So again, no lie, just different registers.

Really weird examples.

I read the BBC link and saw the various pronouns people might use (ze, zir). Has anyone come across this in real life? I find it very strange that the BBC are teaching, as fact, stuff that most people think is ridiculous.

My MP didn't even know what "cis" meant, which was interesting given he has considered the issue. How did he miss that, have people stopped using it?

Men who transition remain in the masons which is men only. Why is calling them a man trabsphobic but staying in a man only club ok?

Its a bit well...picking and choosing isn't it?

Goodness! Show me a woman - any woman - who hasn't had way worse than that shouted after her in the street at some point, just for being female in public. Nothing to see, move along, no hate crime there, just a woman being verbally abused as she must expect to be, going out with obvious breasts and that.

Try shouting misogynist abuse at a female copper and see what the response is.

Names are changeable jj, sex is not.

Male homosexual and gay are used interchangeably because they have the same mèaning.

What is "polite" about forcing someone to tell a lie?

Whats impolite about correctly sexing?

Whats offensive about sex. We all have one. Should we be upset?

I can’t even be bothered to explain any more, as there literally isn’t anything I can write here that you won’t disbelieve, twist, ignore or obfuscate, JJ.

Have a fab evening, I’m out

Y y @testing987654321

I have noticed "female objects" tend to be things men have invented to get inside, which says it all. In the case of boats they also give us the terrible misogynistic pun of being "full of seamen"

Why is man/woman/boy/girl an insult?

The CJS sent me a letter addressed to MR scully...

Should I sue?

Why is correctly sexing offensive ?

It might sort of work I suppose if you knew one person who required different pronouns. But more than that and no-one is going to keep up with it are they?

I mean I'm clever and articulate and neurotypical and I can imagine it would make my head hurt a little bit if I had to refer to Tony as they or zi or something. But add Cath who wants to be xi into the mix and I'd be fucked. So I probably wouldn't talk about Cath or Tony and no-one else would much either because life's hard enough without stressing about this shit and Cath and Tony would possibly think we were all very non-binary phobic as we started to leave x/zem out but really it would just be because x/zey are fucking hard work.

Sorry Cath and Tony. I learned pronouns 40 years ago and zey are pretty hardwired now. It would have been nice to go bowling with you but really, 'I know Tony wants a beer but can you ask zem if zi wanted a pint or a half' is never going to happen outside Twitter. Or a Green Party Conference.

As it happens I think that prosecution was petty. But the police often are petty, I imagine if he'd shouted that at a masculine appearing lesbian police officer he would be equally likely to end up in court. Probably best not to shout insulting things at coppers as a general rule if you want to avoid prosecution.

Presumably the court weren't persuaded that his Aspergers diagnosis was the reason for his behaviour.

Acceptable words for people of different ethnicities and sexualities have changed considerably over the years

Well yes, language does change. I am not the sort of person to use dismissive/offensive words about people.

I don't see what that has to do with describing a man as a man, calling him he, or calling a woman a woman and using she. It's some impressive doublethink required to find that offensive, the words man and he are still in common use, I believe.

Goodness! Show me a woman - any woman - who hasn't had way worse than that shouted after her in the street at some point, just for being female in public. Nothing to see, move along, no hate crime there, just a woman being verbally abused as she must expect to be, going out with obvious breasts and that.

Wait till misogyny is a hate crime. The courts won't handle anything else but the backlog for a decade.

You're being diseingenous @bessica. As a bisexual woman myself, I can categorically state that "gender identity" has about as much to do with sexuality as eating biscuits. However, unlike eating biscuits and being bisexual, it forces everyone else to tell Big Lies daily, under the pretence of "being kind". I'm interested to know where you'd draw the line at the lies you're happy to be forced to tell? Should we be legally compelled to make ugly people supermodels? Should anorexics be told they're as fat as they think they are? Should we all say the world is flat so we don't upset the Flatearthers?!

Maya Forstater?

Taking someone to court is not the same as being pursued into court.

Pronouns have always been based on gender, that's how things like ships ended up being referring to in the feminine.

What? I mean, it always irritates me when men call objects "she" because it seems to epitomise how they really see women.

But if pronouns are based on gender, what is it about a ship that is feminine? The ship doesn't have an identity, it's an object.

Or are you just talking nonsense to side-track someone like me who is easily distracted?

Beat me to it Crone.

Who has been pursued into court for not using correct pronouns?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7943147/Teenage-yob-ordered-pay-compensation-transgender-police-officer-abuse.html

An autistic teenager, who was also a carer for his stepfather, branded a 'yob' for having autistic traits. Being asked if they were a boy or a girl made a police officer (PCSO) too traumatized and afraid to patrol alone

It was rightly condemned by autism groups.
www.adultistic.com/news/teen-aspergers-charged-hate-crime-transgender-officer

Here you are jj.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/teen-prosecuted-after-asking-whether-17651755

The court heard Armstrong, who acts as a carer for a man he considers his father, had been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome and suffered from anxiety and depression.

But obviously the transgender PCSO was much more vulnerable than this young man.

And talk about trabs without using race and sexuality as a cover to shut down discussion.

Why is correctly sexing offensive ?