BBC Bitsize - Pronouns

They cant do that as their sex?

I mean they can ballet dance or fix cars without expecting me to lie surely?

I wonder if any of these people who are in favour of what the BBC is saying will ever give us their definitions of 'gender' or 'gender identity'?

The idea that literally everyone who identifies as a woman is de facto a woman just because they say so is so clearly absurd that i often see genderists tripping themselves up on their own logic. No one believes that. This is about power, who has it, and manipulating language to serve those ends.

This aligns with the PSHE curriculum which is supposed to encourage young people to be tolerant and non-judgmental of different lifestyles and identities.

It doesn't align with the PSHE curriculum in that the new DFE guidelines ask schools to not push extremist beliefs on children (paraphrased).

My post to Rufflecrow of course

What do you think of the imagery Austriana, the mixed sex changing room and sports team? How does it sit with your feelings about women's spaces?

And 'woman' doesn't have two meanings. It doesn't. You would like it to but that doesn't make it so.

Well that is perhaps no longer the case, hence this forum. In fact in many ways you could say that ship has long sailed.

It is and I'd like to see it challenged on those grounds. What sort of person would prosecute an autistic teenager for a minor slip? Gender ideology is all about power.

@Austriana you'd do well to take note of the above too.

Can one of those people who are telling us to be 'tolerant' define 'gender identity'?

That's what makes Genderism extremely ablist @oldcrone. It directly discriminates against those who lack either the social skills or the neurological capability to perform the kind of mental gymastics needed to avoid committing a 'hate incident'.

They are educating about people who identify as trans and use different pronouns - and how to be inclusive towards them. This aligns with the PSHE curriculum which is supposed to encourage young people to be tolerant and non-judgmental of different lifestyles and identities.

What is the issue? Your attitude is like when parents protest about sex education because they think it will encourage their children to have sex.

Feminism is the defining ideology of my life, and I take issue when women's safe spaces are compromised but I don't understand how Bitesize is threatening women at all here.

Such nonsense. Sex is not in a "state of flux" for human beings. Dig up a 2,000 year old skeleton and if it belonged to someone whose sex was female at conception it will still be female now. Anyone who tries to make something so basic and obvious into "flux" is a Trump handmaiden, regardless of their sex (which I think we could all hazard a guess at umpteen pages in!). It's all part of this constant blurring of fantasy and reality that's supposed to make us dazed and compliant.

So it's obviously not fine to ask someone what sex they are, but you're saying it would have been OK to ask the PCSO their 'gender'. What could he have said that was acceptable? I don't think using pronouns 'are you a he or a she?' would have gone down any better.

What does that mean?

So yes, the reality you want to inhabit is best exemplified by, 'this happens in this situation where a parent puts themself before their child and lies to assessing social workers and medical professionals in order to obfuscate reality'. Well done.

Telling girls to do this destroys their boundaries. See Pronouns are Rohypnol it explains this very well.

Bit like you can have a trans woman and a non trans woman.

Yes definitely, in the sense that female people exist who identify as the the opposite sex (male), and I would think of them as a "trans woman". Because I view that person as a woman.

HTH

No need to duck.

Genuine question, Kitfish. Does your child have to repeatedly tell their friends/teachers/peergroup/family what pronouns they wish to be used on a day to day basis? Or do you all take your cues from how your child presents on any given day?

It sounds exhausting all round to be honest

Actually that's pretty much what happens from a legal perspective and adoptive parents would not be required to disclose it even in medical situations although hopefully most would.

No, that's not what happens-in this country anyway. A child's history does not disappear just because they have been adopted-and this is made very clear to adoptive parents. The majority of children adopted in this country are older rather than babies/toddlers. They may never choose to call their adoptive parent 'mum' or 'dad'-their choice. They may still have contact with their birth parents (if deemed safe) and refer to them as 'mum' and 'dad' in their adoptive parents' presence-their choice.

The days of adopting a baby and then telling them at 18 that they were adopted and never mentioning it again are over. Adoptive children do not exist to validate their adoptive parents' feelings. In the same way women do not exist to validate the feelings of transwomen.

I hate this use of adoptive parents as a gotcha. It has nothing to do with this debate. Adoptive parents don't, when asked by a doctor about hereditary traits in their children, answer for themselves rather than the relevant birth parent or start claiming to be triggered by reality and demanding safe spaces - even though it probably is painful to be reminded that you're not genetically related to your child. And they are honest wuth their children about their life stories - even when rhoae stories are terrible.

And that's the parallel, sometimes reality is painful. But it's also important.